General Chat

Did you have to, Caroline?

The "great unwashed" as you call them should have read the small print ie the referendum is advisory not mandatory. Moreover at the express command of Johnson, Aaron Banks, Farage, Cummings there was no information from the Leave side as to what sort of brexit was envisaged nor how it would be carried out. So the brexit voters were had. They can only blame themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5kF-6c4hb0

Although on any day anything can happen (e.g. Tuesday last) most likely there will be a S50 extension ( the EU favours at least 6 months so as to allow another referendum , France wants 2 years ) followed by a general election a few weeks before Christmas. It won't be Johnson's sig on the letter though as he will be busy digging ditches. With a bit of luck there will be storms, high winds and a blizzard. Hull will be under water (again).

The Liberals are set fair to overhaul Labour both in votes and seats if they can increase their current 21% to over 25%. Labour are crumbling which is no bad thing as better Corbynism ends with destroying the Labour Party rather than the UK. If Corbynism does not do the trick Kinnock will be happy to help.

The Tories have their own problems 'cos the BXP will negate Cummings strategy of taking the gritty north. Leafy remain seats in the south and London will fall as ripe plums to the LibDems. I was in Winchester yesterday, wall to wall expensive eateries and fashion shops, zero unemployment. It is all set to become a Lib Dem stronghold. The 13 seats in Scotland are a busted flush. Something around 30% will return the Tories as largest party but will also see them in Opposition.

From there they can relax and enjoy the LibDems and Labour taking chunks out of each other which will go on until and unless Corbyn leaves office. There is not the slightest chance of RoseGarden 2 ... or so it is said.

Currently "Remain" has a lead of about 7% which is a lot less than in 2016. Given changed demographics though with brexiteer grannies in their graves replaced by green/remain millenials Leave will prob lose this time around. That brexit only promises sweat, tears and unemployment is prob no help either, no sunlit uplands only Rees Mogg's Hedge Fund.

"Knock knock.

You open the door. There is a man or woman standing there with a red rosette, asking for your vote in the coming general election. “What are you going to do about Brexit?” you ask The man or woman takes a deep breath:

“We are committed to legislating for a second referendum within six months. Before that we’re going to go back to Brussels and negotiate a completely new deal in the space of a few weeks even though the last one took years.
“Then we’re going to have a special, one day conference in which the party will decide whether to back its own deal or whether to back Remain in the second referendum.
“But whatever that conference decides, the prime minister Jeremy Corbyn probably isn’t going to take any notice of it. He, the actual prime minister, is going to sit it out entirely. But it won’t just be him. After we’ve had this special, one day conference, nobody in the government will be expected to take any notice of it. They’re going to be free to campaign for whatever they like.”
Right, you might ask. “So are you Leave or Remain?”
The man or woman yawns. “I think I’ve made that perfectly clear.”"
"

Whether in the legal sense or whatever it is not democratic is not the point....the great unwashed masses feel it is democratic rightly or wrongly...they were asked to vote, they did so in the expectation of the majority "winning"...and going over the same subject again and again the albeit very slim majority voted as they did. To not follow through with that result is to the great unwashed masses a slap in the face. The whole point is the EU don't want to lose their money and Parliament didn't think they would be ignored.

That' alright then.

Referendums are not democratic they are the very antithesis of democracy.
Those few democratic countries which use them on a regular basis, notably Ireland, fence them around with various restraints notably requiring at least a 60% majority to be carried. Even then the Dial can and does implement the referendum as and when and how it sees fit.

Populism aka direct democracy always leads to the same thing, totalitarian government in the form of fascists or communists.

The UK system of representative government is the same as in most Western democracies from Ottawa to Wellington NZ. I am sorry that the Daily Dumb and it minions have never been able to get their head around such an easy concept.

Parliament simply reflects the will of the country. The country is split, so is parliament. Parliament has not failed the referendum of 2016. Parliament , led by T May, negotiated a Withdrawal Agreement which could by now have been in force but was opposed by Johnson, Rees Mogg and the rest of the ERG rabble.

Of course there is no majority for a NoDeal Brexit. It is economic suicide and a sure path to fascism.

Johnson is stuck fast in a spider's web of his own making from which he cannot escape until he is released by his enemies. The world at large will barely notice the passing of the brexit cabal.

If Brexit is canned there could well be greater world-wide repurcussions about the knock it has administered to democracy.

If brexit is canned there will be a few months squalling from the hard brexiters and life will return to its usual level of what passes for normalilty except that we will have blue passports just like Slovenia.

OTOH if brexit is implemented with/without a deal you can look forward to at least ten years of hard hassles as the UK tries to reestablish trading arrangements with a weak hand and/or sells off the assets to the US carpet baggers (*) so as to avoid the same finale as Thos. Cook. "WTO Rules" are myth.

On the govt's own admission those on low incomes wil be the hardest hit.

And then there would be endless parliamentary hassle.

To get to where we are we should not have started from there.

(*) Aaron Banks , Mogg and many others haven taken up large hedge positions against the £ UK and stand to make a great deal of money from brexit.

I am wondering if it wasn't such a bad idea to suspend parliament after all.

For one thing, nobody knows what our position will be in the new year so much of the business enacted now is only going to have to be re-enacted once we know where we stand.

Brexit is such a huge and all consuming problem at the moment with absolutely no reference points that it needs all the concentration available. Parliamentary sittings are just a distraction.

Most of the things that Parliament deals with will keep but Brexit won't. It needs a clear field to be dealt with.

"I am sick and tired of this. As a person in their 30s who works just as hard as those around him, I deserve some hope. Our parents had hope and so did theirs. They had a future. Boris is a shameful, abhorrent nightmare and he, together with his whole party, have robbed us all of hope. Feeling this way because of those people and their actions takes its toll. I am sick of it. I’m sick of their impetuous actions and unwavering loyalty to whichever extreme arrogant fool takes charge. Their words, their lack of thought; they couldn’t care less about the people or the “will of the people”. I think we should all be sickened. "

EpicNinjaCowboy

There won’t be agreement until each understands what the other is talking about.

Isn't it strange:

Government till 24th Sept:
“Prorogation is nothing to do with Brexit!”

Government on 24th Sept:
“Stopping prorogation is an attempt to stop Brexit!”

Hmm........

:-D

:-D :-D :-D :-D

You woke up teacher.

You can't leave well alone, can you,David?

Now look what you have done.


What happened ?

Yes, I heard the news, too.
I'm not sure anyone's managed to avoid being advised of potential scenarios by the media.

There could be a vote of no confidence and a new govt in two weeks. A new govt could for instance request a s50 extension. The chief obstacle is that most of the opposition dislike and distrust Jezza Corbyn as much as Bojo.

Running a govt with a majority of - 41 is impossible. Another of Brave Dave's innovations.

Or, indeed, saying it is their mouth they talk through!

Apart from a quick shopping trip and a shower I have been watching the House of Commons broadcast all day (and I still am).

I like my news from the horse's mouth. Not that I am calling anyone in the Commons a horse ;-)

You can't leave well alone, can you,David?

Now look what you have done.