General Chat

People forget that the retired also helped fund the state pensions of the retired when they were young and worked too. It isn't just the young that fund today's pensions. Employers also pay in a good chunk of the money for state pensions in their share of NI. Also many pension age people carry on working after retirement age , some out of necessity, and they are effectively partly or largely funding their own state pension in the NI they are now required to carry on paying.

Those on pension credits get so many perks in CT, HB free classes and other things it seems unfair they should get free TV licence when the poor souls that are 10p over the pension credit limit get nothing?

I'm all for reducing the hassle and worry for the over 75s. Modern life is getting hard enough for many of them as it is, even just crossing a road these days. There's little enough respect for older people by some without seeing them as fair game to plunder what little they have.

I'm pretty certain that Rollo did not go, or was not taken, to the areas of Surrey where the poor and homeless people live, if he thinks they all looked pretty wealthy and healthy!

When Canada was first negotiating a NAFTA deal with the US many years ago, one of the items that the US had on the table was the complete demolition of the Canadian Social Services and medical benefits ............... the US has nothing that comes close to Canada's let alone what the UK has.

BUT to them, what we did have counted as unfair benefits

Thank heavens we had a strong PM who, for all his faults (and he had many), did stand up against the US and refused to negotiate unles that was taken off the table.

They tried again last year.


They'll try it with you.


After all, the American belief is that I look after myself, you look after yourself .... and everyone who can't, well hard lines. It's none of OUR business.

And how many over 75's get all the money plus more that can afford the full tv licence..

Quite a few I bet.

Those that Rollo says are Tory voters.

Thanks Joylouise for alerting me to the other petition. I'm going to sign that one too.
Like others on here have mentioned, I too think they should abolish the licence fee altogether.

Most of the EU is far more generous than the UK!

The last time I was in Canada ( for a FH get together ) was in a place called "Surrey" B.C. People there did not look short of a dollar.

Whatever some may think the UK is not in anyway a renegade asteroid escaping Jupiter ( Brian Cox "Planets" ) but rather a key member of the inner planets.

Business and social models are way, way different to North America and it is not very relevant to compare them. They are just different. One reason is that the European experience of the C20 was so very different to that of the USA and Canada.

That said Trump's complaint that the EU protects its social model inside a steep wall of product requirements is true enough. It won't change.

I have the radio on for much of the day, turning it off for good around 5:30 pm when we want to watch the TV news. Then we have silence for the evening.

The radio is free, no matter which station I listen to, although only the CBC stations are ad-free. If I listen to other stations, then I get frequent ads.

With 3 CBC radio stations available here, I have a choice between listening to documentaries and talk shows or continuous music, both with hourly breaks for news, both international and domestic.

As far as TV is concerned, I could have access to 3 stations for free .............. CBC, and 2 local stations. All carry ads. If I want more, I have to pay for cable, and watch ads.

If I have a computer, tablet, etc, I have to either pay for the cable or hitch a ride on someone else's ........... but I can access radio and TV via those.


It seems to me that there are lots of things that Brits get that are not found in other countries .......... most countries don't offer such as free TV, free bus passes, free medications, fuel credits for winter, and extending to incredible benefits for people who don't work, etc. Yet you must be like most other countries where these "extras" are funded by an ever smaller group of tax payers who will NOT get them when they themselves retire.

This is because what they pay in is what is paid out to seniors.

It's happening here because there are now only 2 working taxpayers for every person receiving the OAS ........ there are very high chances that there won't be enough left in the pot when today's workers retire.

The BBC cannot maintain anything like its current programming output while all those over 75 don't pay. Quite rightly it is not prepared to make such cuts.

The Tories have connived at a situation where the govt knew perfectly well that the BBC would not be able to support a nocharge licence for the over 75s. The actual motive is the destruction of independent tv programming. As part of the vast DWP budget free licence for over 75 is tiddley winks something Brown knew perfectly well.

There is not the slightest chance of the BBC reversing this decision unless the govt meets the gap from the DWP budget which it won't do.

There are many other ways that independent ( of ads ) public broadcasting can be financed and the BBC should urgently look to a replacement of the tv fee. Indeed there are signs that it is doing just that.

Those who vote Tory have no cause to complain.

First they came for the unemployed, and I did not speak out—
Because I had a job.
Then they came for the disabled, and I did not speak out—
Because I was fit in good health.
Then they came for the old , and I did not speak out—
Because I am still a young man.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Jan, I signed one this morning (The Petitions Team:UK Government and Parliament) as well as writing to my MP, as directed.

I am with you there, Rollo. If other nations have no licence fees why do we?

I don't think a small sum added to council tax is acceptable either, for the reasons Sue mentions in her 12:39 post.

Far better to do away with the licence altogether. If it can be done in other countries, why not here?

I have just posted this on Babra's thread, but will post it here too.

I've just signed a petition to try and save free TV for older people.
If people are interested in signing it, here is the link below, from the age uk organisation.

www.ageuk.org.uk/tvpetition

As I said JL I am not in favour of the license fee for anybody. It is part of a bureaucratic means of command and control of which the UK is too fond.

In France after the TV license was scrapped the money for France 2 TV etc was raised through a small increase on the council tax. This is far simpler to administer , keeps track with inflation, cannot be evaded and denies the govt any chance of influencing he media by squeezing its cash flow. TF1 is also free over TNT but gets its revenue from ads same as UK ITV.

There are the magic words, Rollo.

Your comment of 9:14: ' licence fee is controlled by the government'.

Precisely what I expected and pointed out to my MP.


Sue, those things annoy the hell out of me too. What kind of people cheat and lie at the expense of others who are poor and/or incapacitated?

It won't begin to change unless more are dobbed in - not something most of us would do, I'm afraid.

One of the OAP's I know gets around £170 a week and with her added pension for being over 80 she gets quite a bit for that.

Also she has ISA's worth £40,000 and still claims Pension Credit and doesn't pay any Rent,Council Tax which to me is just taking money from OAP's that need the extra Money to keep them in food and such.

Also a guy I know worked from 15 yrs old in a garden centre until he retired gets Pension Credit and everything going including HB and CT but he won't tell the truth and not claim for PC.

It bloody annoys me because there are pensioners on the breadline that think they are not entitled to any extra money.
Rollo.

You are such a copier from t'internet.

Two friends of mine are pensioners, both are housebound, ill, and not able to fill in forms to claim this or that, they have to rely on other people to help them get what they are entitled to, and it is little enough. TV is their company for most of every day, the voice of a friendly news person is often the first and last voice they hear each day, some days the only voice.

I don't know any pensioners on the fiddle. I do however know a number who have spent years not claiming their entitlement, through either not knowing they could, not being physically or mentally able to, or simply being too proud to do so.

"And don't forget there are lots of pensioners on the fiddle that are claiming everything they can and not declaring all the money they have coming in."

- just like MPs, Peers, footballers, media stars, high paid company directors, landlords and so on and so forth.

At least most of the pensioners are just trying to get by.
Even with 100% HB living on "pension credit" of around £ 1000 / month for a couple is next to impossible.

The leading OAP fiddles occur after people have moved on with rellies still claiming / using blue badges, bus passes, free tv, pensions etc etc.

And don't forget there are lots of pensioners on the fiddle that are claiming everything they can and not declaring all the money they have coming in.

The BBC is an independent corporation without shareholders. It must adhere to the current Royal charter while the licence fee is controlled by the govt. In the event that the BBC was dissolved its assets would revert to the government. The govt can release data it holds on private people to non state entities as and when it needs to for the effective administration of the state. DVLC is one example.

My own feeling is that the fee is past its use by date.

One thought occurred to me over breakfast and I have written to my MP about it.

How is the BBC going to know which over-75s are receiving benefit?

If the answer is that it is part of government and as such it is entitled to access the records of the government department that deals with benefits, this would infer that government still controls the BBC - and as such, I would expect MPs to vote against the BBC's intentions regarding licences.

If the BBC is not part of government then it should have no access to government records such as lists of those in benefits.

I hope you get the gist of this as I am I writing in a hurry before I go out with a pal.

Malcolm, pension credit is for pensioners on low income and is means tested. Other people have already mentioned what counts as 'low income'.

You can ring the pension credit claim line on 0800 991234 (free call)

They will fill in the application for you over the phone. You will need your national insurance number and bank details along with information about your finances including savings, mortgage, investments and any other assets.

I expect they'll all be told to pay online. :-P