General Chat

After the dropping of the red flag and 4mph limit it became the accepted norm that motor traffic was the priority user of streets and highways notwithstanding that it has always been the case (in the UK) that the majority of people over 10 have never had access to a car at any given moment.

The carnage on the roads 1910 - 1965 was truly dreadful with over 7 000 fatalities in 1965 (about 2,500 2015) the same year that saw the imposition of a 70 mph speed limit. This limit was seen as a gross invasion of motorist's "rights" by all the usual suspects.

Speed limits (other than statutory 30mph limit) have been set by highway authorities on the basis of enforcement NOT on what is seen to be a safe speed. The general rule was to set the limit at what 90% of drivers would keep to anyway without a specific limit. The limits were limits, not a target. The police could and do prosecute for excessive speed even within the limit.

Traffic speed limits required for optimal average speed through a network are well below the typical speed limits. By and large drivers keeping to a speed 10 mph below actual speed limits will not hold anybody up at all but they will save a lot of money on fuel and wear and tear as well as dramatically reducing their accident risk. They will not take any longer to make their journey - an ill understood paradox.

Since 1970 the performance and handling of even the most mundane saloon car has improved by a vast amount. Unfortunately driver training has not improved very much at all despite the supposedly more difficult driving test. The main reason is that attitudes for private license classes are not taken into account at all.

One result of this is the high number of motorcycle deaths relative to bikes on the road. Another is that more than half of new drivers make an accident claim in their first year.

Moped deaths are very low and usually the result of the moped being hit by a car or truck rather than any fault of the moped user.

Modern technology is making it far easier to impose speed limits based on optimum network speed and current weather conditions. Currently systems are rolling out on motorways such as M3 M25 M6 with average speed cameras. Studies are being made at the TRRL of the possibility of integrating speed limits with in car GPS extending to various kinds of driver control from outside the vehicle - e.g. platooning of vehicles on motorways, disablement of vehicles and so on as well as area wide speed enforcement.

A more regulated and predictable traffic environment will for sure assist the older driver. OTOH driving too slowly speed ( already sanctioned on motorways ) will be further discouraged unless there is good reason.

The reason why drivers over 70 are not subject to health examinations and additional tests in order to extend their private DL is that there are simply not enough driving examiners and instructors or sufficient health resources to do so. Given that drivers over 70 as a group have a far better safety record than the under 30s providing resources so a massive attack on older drivers is not seen as sound public policy.

In any case most people who need to stop driving for reasons of age or health do so before having a senior moment. Daft accidents are not the sole prerogative of the old. Yesterday in the south of England a saloon car with three young men in it on a dual carriageway with no other traffic rolled over and ended up in a field. All three men have life threatening injuries.

Invalid electric cars have transformed life for disabled people. For such a car to go uphill it must be capable of more than 4mph on the flat. Speed limiters add a lot to the cost. It is reasonable though that they are insured and registered with use restricted to over 65s and the disabled.

Pavements are meant for pedestrians and invalid electric cars. Where wide enough they are often shared with cyclists. There is a never ending furore about bicycles on pavements and the dangers of invalid cars. In the last 10 years there has been one serious injury to a pedestrian by a bicycle and one pedestrian killed by an invalid car. There has also been one person killed by a shopping trolley in a supermarket.

Yet car drivers having camped on the pavements to park moan when the invalid cars are forced into the carriageway!

Pedestrians and cyclists suffer more fatalities than car & truck drivers. A half of all fatal accidents involve an HGV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YSr1ZT0PkE&list=RD5YSr1ZT0PkE

Aged 84, I would be happy to have my driving checked.

It is time to give up driving when each individual driver .....a medical expert or concerned friends/ family members think it is.

The age could vary from 17 to 110 ...........why pick on the older drivers?

why indeed

Some of the worst drivers of any age are those who are arrogant enough to believe their driving is perfect and all others, especially those over 70, cause the accidents. Sadly a lot of drivers lack good driving manners.

That's it!

It's time I gave up voluntarily defending my fellow cyclists. :-P

I don't mind cyclists Dermot......as long as they don't ride 2 abreast or undertake at traffic lights, they are welcome to share the road with me :-D

even though they don't pay road tax and rarely have lights at night

AnnCardiff - yep; and it's a pity that the Moon only shines on a bright night!

I rarely defend cyclists but I think the highway code condones them riding two abreast, even though it can be very inconvenient.

Tour de France rules often apply.

You are quite right AnninGlos

Rule 66 of the Highway Code includes

You should

never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

Chris

"couldn't come up with how many meters some twit in the DVLC came up with years ago for Austin 7's,or hooked an arm around the back of the passenger seat to look behind while reversing! "


or one hand on the wheel while the other wound down a window to wave it around to say...........I'm going to turn left,

or I am slowing down!!!

those were the days :-D

Like Robert,I would be happy to have my driving checked.

Surely it depends on health and mobility.not every one over 80 is disabled or mentally unstable

I am 80 and last year had a private health test and was pleased when the result was my metabolic age 64.

I have driven a lot since I passed my driving test in 1962,sometimes up to 1000 miles a week when I was n business.

Living in rural Wales I find that.a Lot of younger drivers are so much in a hurry that they can't wait to race past on the most dangerous bends causing accidents.

I travel most weeks on a 60 mile round evening trip taking other pensioners who trust me to drive them to a club in the heart of Snowdonia. And I am aware that I have to keep them safe.I would never use my phone and I obey the rules of the road.i will do that as long as I can .
Some people are old at 50....it depends on the individual in my opinion.If I get to the age when I don't feel confident I will give up! :-S

"even though they don't pay road tax"

A hoary old myth. There is no such thing as road tax. Vehicle excise duty (VED) is a tax on vehicles pure and simple it is not hypothecated for road construction.

Roads are paid for from general government expenditure which is paid for by aggregate taxes and other revenue levied on everybody.

Thus cyclists, pedestrians and so on all pay taxes of one sort or another to central government as VAT is pretty well unavoidable at a minimum. Thus cyclists have as much right to use the roads as any other taxpayer.

They also of course have the same duty to obey the law. I wish some of them realised just how invisible they are at night with no lights. Too many seem to have even less road sense than young male drivers.

One of the things that I did not much care for while living in France were the hordes of lycra clad cyclists whizzing around en masse on Sundays. Quite why this mad French custom has been inflicted on England I have no idea but I am dubious that it is legal.

Further to my previous post.....Regarding cyclists...all through the summer months when we have lots of visitors driving about in Wales,they have an early evening cycling rally with stewards setting up various points on a very twisty road,so it is dangerous and hampers car drivers
there have been a few serious accidents on the one particular road we travel because of people trying to avoid them and other impatient drivers trying to get past .

Rollo............


Invalid is invalid nowadays......... it's disabled or preferably less able bodied!

In Portugal it is compulsory to have a (free) medical every 2 years after the age of 70, to assess your fitness to drive. No doubt, if it was introduced into the UK it would come with a big fee!

Hubby was a very good driver . Started by driving a motor bike with sidecar until our daughter got too big for the child seat in it so he took car driving lessons and then bought our first car ,a 3 year old Singer Vogue

When he was having problems some 4 plus years ago and had had a couple of falls I voiced my concerns and he was sent for tests and the outcome was early alzeimer with Lewy Bodies . He was told you can still drive but must inform the DVLA .

He thought he could do this at his next driving license renewal later that year and continued to drive for a few months as "the hospital said I could " Driving was his independence and he didn't want to admit he wasn't really up to par on some occasions . He wasn't dangerous but did clip kerbs a couple of times and seemed to lose some of his awareness at times

It took our granddaughter to tell him grandad you don't want to have an accident and be responsible for killing someone AND possibly not covered by your insurance as you haven't told them. So you could lose everything in the event of a claim

He gave up the same day

I have been driving too for 40 plus years which has been a godsend as I took over the driving full time . Thank goodness cos have been to the hospital every day for 7 weeks and it would have cost a fortune in taxi fares .

I am 78 and still able and hope to continue driving for a few more years . It's our lifeline at the moment for all sorts trips like getting prescriptions etc

Yes I do online shopping and this will be the norm from now ,but getting out in the car when I can will be all the more sweet now