General Chat

Sorry about saying President Allende. It is of course Hollande. I must have misheard it.

Just shows how important Soundex is :-) ;-)

quote......Soldier does not have a life-threatening injury. Pres Allende said it may be connected to Woolwich.


François Hollande is the French President.

and I suspect it's a copy cat sheep.....no offence meant Errol x

Now a French soldier has been stabbed today in the neck whilst on patrol in Paris. Assailant said to be of North African origin and wearing Arab dress.

Soldier does not have a life-threatening injury. Pres Allende said it may be connected to Woolwich.

Glad this has been restored. Supposedly 'free speech' in this country, haha what a laugh. Only free speech if you're praising Allah like that idiot with the hook hand.

Trafford church leaders have united to condemn the brutal murder of a Greater Manchester soldier in Woolwich.

Representatives from churches across the borough and Greater Manchester said: “We, as representatives of many of Greater Manchester’s faith communities, deplore the terrible attack that took place in Woolwich.

“We pray for the victim of this attack, his family and all who witnessed this tragic event. We call for peaceful responses that repudiate hatred and build bridges across our communities.

“All our religions hold the sanctity of human life as a core principle. No grievance can justify such a barbaric assault that has cost a young man his life. Terrorism has no place on our streets.

“We will redouble our efforts to work for peace, love, understanding and hope."

The signatories of the statement include Rev John Rafferty, chairman, Altrincham Interfaith Group; Altrincham Muslim Association; Ann Angel, a member of Jewish Community and Altrincham Interfaith Group; Lucille Cohen, Altrincham Interfaith Group, former president of the Jewish Representative Council of Greater Manchester; Catherine Pridgeon, Altrincham Interfaith Group; Rev Danny Crosby, Unitarian Minister at Dunham Road Unitarian Chapel, Altrincham and Queens Road Unitarian Free Church, Urmston; Councillor Afzal Khan, chairman of Manchester Council of Mosques; Mohammed Amin, co-chairman Muslim Jewish Forum of Greater Manchester; Jonny Wineberg, vice-chairman Faith Network 4 Manchester, co-chairman Muslim Jewish Forum of Greater Manchester; Bob Day, chairman, Faith Network 4 Manchester; Carolyn Jones, hon sec of Altrincham Interfaith Group and member of Dunham Road Unitarian Chapel.

Charles Kwaku-Odoi; Faith Network 4 Manchester, Command Prayer Centre Ministries Int.; Qaisra Shahraz, Faith Network 4 Manchester; Irfan Syed, UK Unity Group; Rabbi Haim Shalom, rabbi of Menorah Synagogue, Cheshire Reform Congregation; Gordon Levy; Chan Parma, Bolton Interfaith Council.

Michael Cooke, Philip Austin, Tony McNeile, Faruk Ali, Bolton Interfaith Council and The Faith Leaders Forum of Bolton; Faiths United (Tameside); Suresh Mehta, Jain Community; Councillor Nilofar Siddiqi, Sufi Muslim community.

David Arnold (former President of the Jewish Representative Council of Greater Manchester) and Region and Revd Canon Steve Williams (Secretary of Greater Manchester Faith Community Leaders), co-chairmen Manchester Council of Christians and Jews; Revd Richard Church, Moderator, North West Synod, United Reformed Church; Revd Keith Davies, Chairman, Manchester and Stockport District, Methodist Church; Revd Paul Martin, chairman, Bolton and Rochdale District, Methodist Church.

C & P's from yahoo news: "Attacks on Muslims have increased sharply after the murder of a soldier in a London street, amid a series of arrests linked to the backlash.

Faith Matters, an organisation that works to reduce extremism, said more than 160 incidents had been reported to its helpline since Drummer Lee Rigby's killing on Wednesday.

That compared to the average of four to eight cases a day reported to the group before the attack."

:-( :-(

The world has moved on since Munich, Sue. Agreed. Which makes it even the more surprising to me that the Olympics went off without any major incident.

It says on the news this morning that the two main suspects plus the "friend" who was arrested after the BBC interview are amongst 2,000 individuals currently being actively monitored by security forces. And many potential atrocities have been thwarted in last couple of years, thank God.

(Edit) Kitty. Very true :-(

Sorry John, please don't take this as criticism but you cannot compare the Black September group with worldwide terrorism today.

I was living in Frankfurt during those Olympics and there were NO countrywide alerts following the killing of the hostages. Life went on as normal, that probably wouldn't be the case in 2013 even though the attack was persons/area specific.

John you say

"The majority of the British Muslim community must feel exactly as we all do. And they need to get that across more to their fellow non-Muslim citizens."

Murderers who choose to use religion as an excuse for their vile actions have no place in any society or religion...............it is a sad fact of life that there will always be individuals who will commit atrocities in the name of something.

:-(

That was a very good post, Sue. And I think we have seen some very helpful posts on this thread and I would not conclude in any way it has turned into a disgrace.

However, as usual I am disappointed that my thoughts and ideas are jumped on. I think the idea that the army plays a higher profile within the Muslim community would lower the temperature considerably.

However much people believe that British foreign policy is wrong or the army is being used for the wrong things, we send loads of aid to many of these countries in the third world. And we deploy our army and wave our flags at them when they return and buy them drinks and hail them as heroes. And we do that whether we belong to a religion or no religion.

And recently many Muslims have come to that part of London for the Olympics (well, just a mile across the river) and had a wonderful time. No tragedies like Munich - just a common purpose and multi-cultural fun.

The majority of the British Muslim community must feel exactly as we all do. And they need to get that across more to their fellow non-Muslim citizens.

excellent post supercrutch :-)

John - you say - to quote:-

"And the many Muslims who feel shocked and aggrieved by this atrocity in Woolwich have to now put their heads above the parapet and condemn any violence in the name of Allah"

Well John, I find that confusing :-S - I am not sure what programmes you are listening/watching or what newspapers you are reading, because the programmes & newspapers that I have seen carry reports from Muslims the length and breadth of the country condemning this horrific attack and denouncing anyone who preaches violence in the name of Islam.

Well said Sue..............you put my own view across way better than I could have done.

amen to that :-)

What a disgrace this thread has turned into a platform for opinionated quotes which are pure speculation gleaned from the www.

A young lad has been murdered, viewing disjointed video clips serves what purpose? Speculating on what the security services knew about either of them is useless.

I watched postings on Twitter following this attack and one thing was evident......Muslims were horrified, embarrassed and dreading a backlash.

Our press have a lot to answer for but they never will be called to justify their vile coverage of this horrific murder. Put yourself in the place of the victim's family listening to the reporters and watching the videos. I couldn't have coped could you?

I hope eventually they get some sort of inner peace, I also hope that the brave individuals who tried to help the victim receive some sort of civil commendation.

John - you quote

"Friend of Adebolajo was arrested after giving an interview to BBC stating that MI5 had approached Adebalajo 6 months ago to give them inside information after a trip he is said to have gone on to Kenya. It sounded rubbish to me, and in the interview I formed an immediate impression man was lying and wumming."

So it sounded rubbish to you? Well you're the expert on rubbish

John - you state - to quote:-

"I would like to see the army defending the right of Muslims to worship in next few weeks. To keep guard outside mosques if they are non-Muslim soldiers, to be allowed to pray inside mosques if they are Muslim soldiers. And the Muslim community to show great pride in "our troops".

That in my opinion is a ridiculous, harebrained, absurd, and insane idea, such a move would only inflame an already fragile situation and probably lead to scenes like those taking place in Sweden at the moment :-|

Friend of Adebolajo was arrested after giving an interview to BBC stating that MI5 had approached Adebalajo 6 months ago to give them inside information after a trip he is said to have gone on to Kenya. It sounded rubbish to me, and in the interview I formed an immediate impression man was lying and wumming.

In the cold light of day, I still think the only way to keep these young men from being radicalised is via the Muslim community. In the same way, the only way to stop young men joining the EDL and the BNP and shouting about retribution is through education.

I would like to see the army defending the right of Muslims to worship in next few weeks. To keep guard outside mosques if they are non-Muslim soldiers, to be allowed to pray inside mosques if they are Muslim soldiers. And the Muslim community to show great pride in "our troops".

It would be a public show of support for our troops by our Islamic friends, and a public show of support by our brave troops too. I think we need Muslims as part of our British ethnic mix very much indeed, but they have to feel they are appreciated and loved if they are to try and integrate more. And the many Muslims who feel shocked and aggrieved by this atrocity in Woolwich have to now put their heads above the parapet and condemn any violence in the name of Allah.

AnnC These are videos that have been on the news channels and stills from them in papers. There are a couple of Suspect 1 talking to someone and his rants have been quoted on this thread. One new one I saw today was the first suspect seeing the armed patrol arrive. He rushed at the lady driver and was just shot in time by another police officer before he injured her, or worse. The second suspect ran along the pavement opposite and shot across before he was also taken down.

The film of the shooting was taken from high up in the nearby high rise flats. During the 20 minutes approx whilst waiting for the arrival of the armed response, both suspects had engaged members of the public and tried to justify what they had done.

The body of the soldier was in the middle of the road, heavily pixillated with brave women staying with his body till the armed response arrived.

Very chilling footage. But it was in all papers today (from Mirror to Telegraph) and everyone was looking at the photos, discussing them and trying to work out what possible motives there were. And it goes without saying that everyone is absolutely horrified, and there is an outpouring of grief for the victim and his family.

well no way have I watched, or will I watch, any videos of this heinous crime - I can imagine it to a certain extent without actually seeing it - the video should not be available for people to watch - remiiscent of the Romans watching the Christians being slaughtered in the amphitheatre - not to my taste at all

thank you Errol for a measured response <3