General Chat

Very disappointed in tonights programme

Do we take it that the tree shown at the beginning of the programme was correct with the way the research went.

Have not watched last third of Celia Imrie programme yet, but have found it absolutey fascinating so far. Fancy her father being in trade.

It has really brought to life the charcters of 17th century. In particular, the wonderful women behind these great men of history. The wife and grandmother of Lord Russell.

And that speech before he was beheaded!!!! It reminded me of a speech by a character in Shakespeare's Henry VIII (Duke of Buckingham, I think) before he was beheaded. Such a tear jerker

History nationally but not genealogical, IMO. Pity.

Think if I had the choice of descending from William the First like Celia or the Pilgrim Fathers, I know which I would much prefer. I hate to say this, but I think the Americans got the best of the Brits all those years ago.

It must be very satisfying though to do your family tree and then find you have a "gateway ancestor" like Lord Russell. Who would have thought that Miss Babs had such illustrious ancestors?

I take your point about it not being genealogical, Joy. This series does seem to have darted about quite a bit from the original structure with trees being introduced at regular intervals.

Next week its John Barnes.

Emma

I feel that all of our ancestors are part of history. However there are some, who like Celia Imrie, whose ancestors made history.

She is so fortunate that because of his position, beliefs etc that her 6xg.gfather held is written into our history and is part thereof. Let us not forget that he died for his beliefs.

Son came in as the programme finished and when I said Celia Imrie was descended from Lord Russell - he replied with the query 'the radical'?

Closest I have come to a relative written in a history book (a local one) is that my OH's direct ancestor was in a pulpit urging Roundheads on to desecrate the hallowed building he was standing in!

I found the stories and lives of Celia Imrie's ancestors very interesting,but felt sad when hearing her read the events, showing how life was so barbaric in those times,and the ghastly deaths that could befall them....innocent or guilty!

I love looking at old documents and thought how lucky she was to see the actual writings and pictures from her family history.

Mau

Both Celia and her son seemed very nice people. We have had people with distinguished pedigrees before, but they didn't draw me in like Celia. Fancy being the 8 x g granddaughter of Lord Russell. Was it Harold Wilson that told Lord Home that he was teh 14th Mr Wilson?

That aunt was funny. When Celia met her and they walked down that long avenue (of Roses?) I was expecting her house to look something like the Queen's in Kew Gardens.

Well done, Chris's son. I had no idea who Lord Russell was , though I did realise the name was aristocratic today. What a shame the present day Russell family were not available to comment. The Duchess of Bedford was Henrietta Tiarks before marriage, a real beauty in her day and still very attractive at 72. She is a widow, and her son is the present Duke.

Watched Celia Imrie in WDYTYA, it was a little disappointing to me as in the RT for the previous week therewas an article that said that she was descended from the Countess of Somerset (and gave some details).

As I had recently read "Unnatural Murder, Poisen ath the Court of James 1" I already knew the story.

I was also disappointed in The Lord Russell part of the story.
One of the witnesses against him was a Howard (sorry can't remember his name or title). Frances, Countess of Somerset, was Frances Howard before her first marriage. She was the daughter of Thomas Howard, Earl of Suffolk.

Was there a connection between Frances Howard and the Howard who was witness against her grandson? Did he stand to gain from being a witness for the crown? or was he trying to save his own life by betraying his (possible) relation?

Perhaps I shall now have to read a book about Lord Russell to get the answers.

Tess That is an interesting connection with HOWARDS. Same family as Henry VIII's wife? Same as Dukes of Norolk today?

It is encouraging me to look up 17th century again. I reckon our families (even very ordinary families) would all have been affected. Probably formed many of opinions we hold today.

One book I have read was History of Myddle, a village near Shrewsbury, by Richard (?) Gough. He wrote in c 1710 and was about 80 at time, so was born before the Commonwealth. Very interesting to see how socail order changed in that village during lifetime of Gough.

Such momentous events in 1600's. Gunpowder Plot, Stuart monarchy, Authorised Bible in 1614, Civil War, return to Stuarts, 1662 ejections of 2,000 Vicars over imposition of Common Prayer Book, William of Orange etc etc.

John, I don't know if there was any connection between Katherine Howard and the Howard involved in the Lord Russell trail, but would think it likely.

The book about Myddle, near Shrewsbury, sounds interesting.
Yes, there was a lot going on during the 17th Centuary, >
I reckon that my (ordinary) family, would have very little say in what was to happen but would have had to do what they were told.

It would be interesting if I was able to find out more about my ancestors at that time.
Quite difficult though to find out more than names and place of baptism, if I am lucky enough to find anything at all.

Tess I often wonder what side my main branch were on in Civil War. I am firmly Cromwellian. Not that I approve of everything Cromwell did - but I would firmly be in his camp.

My family though lived in Bridgnorth, which was a Royalist stronghold. They were Parliamentary voters from 1630 - so both in days of Charles I and Oliver Cromwell.

They were traders, so did they have one foot in the Roundhead camp and one foot in Cavalier camp between 1630 and 1660. I would love to know.

I feel certain that most of us had our lives today formed largely by what happened in 17th century, yet I expect many are like me. Not even sure if their families supported Charles or Oliver :-) :-S

Tonight's episode bored me to tears :-(

Am glad I am not the only one - I gave up at 9.40 - first time ever in all the 8 or 9 years this programme has be shown. This one was No.9 of 10 - but nothing on next week and as far as I know John Bishop's has not been shown, has it been pulled? Anyone know why?

I can never forgive the Roundheads stabling their horses in Salisbury Cathedral.

Want to see England in 1642 - google 17th century living history village.

The Panorama programme replaced the missed episode. I hope they will slot it in asap.

Disappointing AGAIN......

Chris of Wessex, he also stabled horses in the church at Old Basing in Basingstoke which is next to Basing house that he burnt to the ground.

George

Heard they were filming John Bishop in Liverpool and camera and equipment went missing as quick as a Genes chat thread :-S

Chris You would like what happened in a parish church in Slapton, Northamptonshire (near Towcester). Some medieval drawings by parishioners in 14th century were whitewashed over by Cromwell's men (too superstitious).

They were preserved under this whitewash for over 300 years till about 1970 when that part of Slapton Church was riddled with damp and the plaster fell off the wall. Revealing..... :-D :-D

Oh you will be popular in Liverpool insinuating that the residents will nick anything not nailed down.

I am exiting stage right cos I am not dressed for a blood bath---------------->

Sue :-D :-D

When I worked in Bootle, used to park car in Blundellsands and walk.

Even the Antony Gormley sculptures were nicked from the Gladstone Dock, south of Royal Seaforth Dock. Now they start at Seaforth. ;-)

Going back to the Roundheads/Cavaliers.
I went on a genealogical holiday, to a church in Swefling - pure chance - there were 2 opposite each other.
There were a couple of ladies doing the flowers. I asked about the church records - 'What name' I was asked 'Cattermole' I replied. She got me copies of the church records that took the family back to the 1500's (and the spelling 'Kackermoulle'
'This is the Royalist church' she explained, 'The Roundhead one is across the road!!!' :-D

I loved today's programme and would love to see the play written by John Barnes's grandfather.