General Chat

so that's what you got up to Merlin!!!!

TV was never a problem at mealtimes when I was a child - no one had TV, in fact we didn't even have electricity!!!

Yes BC. you can go out and play, As long as its Not behind the Bike Sheds or Doctors and Nurses :-D.PMSL. ;-) **M**.

ThankgodformygooddinnerandpleasemayIleavethetable.thanks....before we scarpered off to play. :-D

i was taught to ask to leave the table when i wasgrowing up in the last 60s early 70s it was just basic table manners,my own children were taught the same growing up in the 80s,i and my sisters and brothers were not allowed to talk at the table,but my own children where,it wasan opportunity for everyone to talk about their day.......my children are grown up now,but when we get together almost everywk for sunday dinner we always talk about our wk.basic manners plus a lot of other basic needs aremissing with todays children,parents are to blame.x

Just dropping in to this part of the conversation. Our son, when he grew to the age when he wanted to go out in the evening, still asked to leave the table after the evening meal, and was allowed to go early because he needed to get to the bathroom for a wash before his father!! His Dad was rether insensitive about it and couldnt see that the boy wanted some evening left with his friends!!

Karen, I completely agree with you re. the dining table.

We as a family sat together at the dining table to eat, the TV was in the other room, so that was the time when we had our family half-hour, where we all sat together and talked.

For me that was so important. I had a kind of double upbringing, in that with my parents, it was a bit fragmented and unsettled (understatement), and was often fostered out to my grandparents, a whole world apart. There my upbringing was more structured. All meals were eaten up at the table, you didn't put your elbows on the table, didn't speak with a mouthful, waited until everyone had finished eating before you dared ask to leave the table, and you took your plate out and helped with the washing up. TV was always switched off, and only at lunchtimes, the 1.00 news was put on the radio (wireless actually), and even that was turned off after the weather forecast.

All meals were also at the same time each day, and woe betide you if you were late.

What's wrong with that?

Cat, re children running around seemingly uncontrolled. I had the same experience in the 90s when I was a waitress in a cafe. It was sooo dangerous when you have your hands full of hot cups of coffee, yet the parents took offence when I asked them if they could ask their children to sit down for their own safety. I felt like saying 'this isn't a playground, it'll be your fault if one of them causes an accident and gets scalded.', but of course you can't say that.

Karen, you haven't offended :-)

I agree with you about children running around screeching and I'm not that old, not that I'm saying you are lol My cousin used to wait on tables in a local pub restaurant, in the holidays, when she was at uni. It used to annoy her too having to avoid kids running round because you could guarantee if something had happened the parents would have been up in arms, even though it would have been their fault.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/6045953567/

official CCTV of an attempted murder of two PC's on Monday 8th August. Royston Ave E4

Someone somewhere knows who was in this car....details in text below the footage x

Ooops.
I'm very sorry if I have offended - I've been proved wrong, then, in saying that a dining table is necessary ;-) as it seems others have been taught perfectly well without!! Which, I guess, goes to prove that the basic manners and discipline count for everything.

I agree - neither can I stand it when I see little ones running around a cafe or restaurant, my first thought is what would happen if someone is carrying hot tea/coffee and the youngster collides with them, my second thought turns to anger, as it seems many of the parents don't appear to care. Neither do they seem to care that other people in the cafe/restaurant just might NOT want to hear their darling little monster running and screeching around the tables!

I know I'm in danger of sounding like I'm spouting off now, with the old "when I was young...." saying, but actually, when i was young we didn't dare behave like that when we were taken out. We sat at the table and hardly said boo! We were taught that running about and shouting was for outdoors.

And yes, we had to ASK if we could leave the table, and were granted permission only when everyone at the table had finished! Imagine that!!!!

K

One other thing about tables and table manners.When I was a Child,I had to ask if I could leave the Table,not just get up and go.**M**.

That really annoys me Rose, the leaving a mess for somebody else to clear up. I was quite impressed the other day, there was a group of about four very young Mums and I lost count of the number of toddlers and babies running around and screeching. When they all got up to leave the restaurant they left the tables justa s they had pushed them all together and the food was everywhere, nothing tidied on the table. Then I saw one of the young women, her child seemed to have attached itself to another Mum, she stacked all the crockery on trays, tidies the table, picked up as much as she could of the litter on the floor. Then looked at us and said something like, 'somebody has to do it' sigh! She had obviously been out with them before!

Just to echo a bit of what Cat has said, when D was little I used to take him in the cafe when I was out shopping, just for a cup of tea when he was in his pushchair, when he was a bit older we would have something to eat there as a treat.

But he never ran around like many kids do, or fidget lol, and we saw a lot that did! but he just liked to use the time to talk about things ... recently I've watched parents just walk out leaving the floor and table littered like a bomb's hit it without making any effort to clear up a bit...presumably 'because it's someone else's job' to clear up?

When I was growing up we didn't have a dining table either because there was no room for one. However, I was taught how to use a knife and fork and basic table manners. I was in the same position when my two were little and I did the same. I can't remember how my mum taught me but with my two I sat them on the settee with a cushion on their knees. There plates were put on the cushion and they were expected to sit there until they'd finished. They were never allowed to run around with food.

When we ate out they were expected to sit still while we ordered and waited for the food to be brought. Then they were expected to use the cutlery provided, just forks when very young, progressing to using knives to cut as they got older. They were never allowed to run around when they'd finished but had to sit still until everybody was finished.

It's not the lack of a dining table that causes problems but the lack of being taught how to behave.

Gobsmacking isn't it!!
Adding my twopenn'erth to the last few posts of this very interesting thread - I was appalled to learn recently that something like 1 in 5 families/households in the UK do NOT have a dining table.

A basic need I would have thought - to teach children table manners, to teach children how to use a knife & fork, for the family to TALK to each other, while at the same time, teaching how to eat properly!!!
Strange, aren't they, these old fashioned ideas :-)

K

When I started at school (insert large number here) years ago all of us could use a knife and fork; dress and undress ourselves for PE (including buttons, buckles and laces); count up to 10 or more and sit still and listen. Our parents made sure of that.

When I started teaching in the 70s a few children didn't have some of those basic skills, so started off quite a way behind the others.

A friend's daughter started teaching last September and some children in her class expected to use a spoon to eat school dinners; couldn't even put a coat on, let alone do it up; had a very limited vocabulary; wandered around the classroom when they felt like it and one was still in nappies. The head teacher spoke to this child's mother in case there was a medical reason and was told that's what he'd been sent to school for. It was the teacher's job to teach him.

Some parents are taking less and less responsibility for their children and I'm not sure what the answer is.

Gwynne

maggie.you are always spot on.i have a 2yr old grandson who als knows where bacon and sausages come from,he also knows that hens lay eggs.
several yrs ago i worked for barnardos,they had a creche for 3 to 4 yr olds,not one of the children could speak in a sentance and every child was still in nappies,when i asked why this was, i was told that "parents can no longer be bothered to teach their children even the basic needs,they know that they are going to go to school and somebody else will do it for them.x

Have to agree with both of you.
I remember when a Jamie Oliver asked a group of (admitedly American) 18year olds, where certain foods came from - some thought cheese grew on trees etc.
I'd tried this once, at a school I worked at .True it was the 'lowest' set, but fittingly was in a food technology lesson - some had no idea where a pork chop came from, where the meat in a beefburger originatedor even what meat a beefburger was made from!!
Initially, I thought they were having a laugh. Unfortunately, they weren't.

Yesterday, I looked after my grandsons, aged 16 months and 3 and a half.
The elder one and I were eating salami. I asked him if he knew where it came from - 'pigs' was his answer.
Ham?- Pigs
Then he told me that pork sausages came from pigs too|!
HIs dad may be a chef - but grandson doesn't HAVE to know these things!!!
When asked if he'd like cheese, he's likely to ask for a 'soft' one please, without blue veins in it!-and he didn't mean a Kraft slice!

I think this sort of information is gleaned by parents talking to their chldren!!! :-)

hi muffy.
trust you to agree with me,as always,its nice to have support on these threads ..thanks.x :-D
alwaysseem to be defending my opinions,even though the posts are supposed to be debates/.x

ha. thanks suzanne.ive got this terrible habbit of killing peoples threads,i know im not alone,but when it happensall the time you start to get worried.x :-D

I'll kill it instead Suzanne I dont mind lol

I agree..that interview showed them up for exactly what they were.

In fact...as i was watching it i couldn't help thinking it was a put up job it was so unbelievable x