General Chat

Pity the poor little rich guy Madamecholet!

I'm reminded of the Bard's famous words which seem entirely appropriate for this and so many issues of the day.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"!

Its not anyones accident of birth that is the issue here.Its the undue advantages some people have with being born into affluence.

As for protesting outside Embassies,I can remember being in Grosvenor Square protesting against the US in Vietnam in 1968.Speaking of which every time I switch a TV set on I see an image of a young girl running and screaming,her skin peeling off after being affected by Napalm.I've got a long memory too!

Regards
William Russell Jones.

Madam Cholet why are you only targeting young people for not protesting for other people? Surely it's just as much the responsibility of everybody else as well?

Do you protest?

Rita the ones who don't want to go to university are not affected by the rise in tuition fees.

When it comes down to it these protests are all about money, EMA, tuition fees. Leaving university with approximately £10,000 - £15,000 in debt is one thing, many will consider it manageable debt. Leaving with £27,000 minimum debt is quite another thing. This debt will be hanging over many graduates for years, possibly decades, and will put many people from poorer backgrounds off going to university.

Of course I wouldn't for one moment suggest peoples opinions are moulded by the newspapers they read.Though I seem to sense what some have been reading.A clue for which is;Its in the post every morning!

Regards
William Rusell Jones.

William, I was there as well.

Can't disagree with a word you've said.

Gwynne

Perhaps if we did,nt give so much money to Wales. Scotland, Ireland,China .India, Pakistan Etc.and curbed the £9 Billion we give out in Overseas Aid, we could afford to do all the things wanted,but we won,t even though all the money is borrowed and the old taxpayer as usual has to foot the bill. Everybody has the right to go to UNI. as long as they have the brains to do so and get off their collective backsides and work to do so.most of these courses given at UNI,s used to be taught at Night Schools etc.and people managed to get on OK.As for the remark about Napalm. I,ve seen far worse than that carried out by people on their own people,and what that has to do with students behaving like they have baffles me .It seems Karl Marx and Lenin are alive and kicking. I think its time to knock this thread on the head,its getting entirely out of context to its original debate.**M**.

I haven't read through this thread but I would like to point out that the Media focused on the "rent a mob" element. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of those attending were trying to make a justified point and abhor the scenes that were broadcast/publiscised. There is, however, no interest in peaceful protest from the press. It doesn't sell copy or boost TV ratings.

I can recall the one in 1966 - when luckily we were turned back by police as with 2 young children we were in danger of wandering in to it.

Plenty of people , students, elderly, middle aged, workers , non workers protest in London against all manner of things...off the top of my head recent (ish) protests or 'marching FOR' , include protest against China getting the last Olympics given their dreadful human rights record, a protest I saw last year against vivisection mostly young people but by no means all,.. a march FOR amnesty for illegal immigrants who have worked long term in this country... Large protest at the bombing of Gaza by Israel...

and who can forget the mass protests against war in Iraq and Afghanistan? They too will have disprupted Londoners going about their daily business. Those protests will not have had the support of everyone, they will have inconvenienced some, annoyed others.

Clegg sold his principles to get power...his own party recognise that... he will go down as the whipping boy for that, and be sacrificed in an attempt to avoid what WILL happen at the next election...the total disappearance of the Lib Dems as a creditable 'middle' party (imo, and I think that's a shame).

i think university's should have a big shake up to
my friend is a lecture in forensic science

and is on £42 per hour thats a lot of money for what she does
when firemen paramedics and policemen get so much less

so university staff have had it to good for to long
time to pull their belts in to
and cut the costs of educating people
we also need to get the costs of educating foreign student up front as lots go back home with their degrees
still owing the universities free for thousands

Eyeryone is entitled to their opinion surely Merlin,even you!

Its important nonetheless to examine the underlying issues surrounding these matters.

Maybe their shouldn't be any taxes collected and you could let people fend for themselves eh!

If you are follower of Marx and Lenin simply because you believe in equality of opportunity for all,then I plead guilty!

I don't know it may be the fault of all the other countries you mention or maybe its a case of blame somone else!

Regards
William Russell Jones.

That £42 an hour the lecturer is paid also includes preparation time. I get paid a set amount per hours that I teach but each session has at least an hour's preparation time, so the hourly rate is halved immediately.

Then there is also the time spent marking students' papers, for which lecturers don't get paid any extra.

So £42 an hour seems fair to me.

Police and firefighters can and do retire on a big pension after 30 years' service and have a further career, if they choose to.

Not many of us can retire when under 50.

Gwynne

Well Madamecholet I wouldn't wish to penalise anyone.Surely you see the advantages Cameron,Clegg and Osborne had over ordinary folks kids?I want to see everyone have the same opportunities and life chances.

I want people to have a leg up,to coin a phrase!

Regards
William Russsell Jones.

£42 an hour...very roughly 7 times the minimum wage...which in all honesty sounds about right to me, given that a good lecturer not only teaches his subject but also broadens the outlook of his students in general.

On the radio the other day...heard in passing , a Midlands council who have decided that no one employed by them will earn more than 20 times the wage of their lowest paid worker... ie 20 times minimum wage! now THAT I would worry about!

my friend only qualified this year

so what are the more experienced lectures on

i myself think its shocking

It's shocking? Why for goodness sake? Given preparation time that's £11 an hour. Add an hour's marking time and it's just over £7 an hour. Quite reasonable, I'd have thought.

Gwynne

Joy, to be fair the more experienced lecturers do even more unpaid hours - when I was at university, especially in my final year, I had meetings with tutors at the weekends because I was working in the week and they were often teaching in the evenings. I didn't come across any who didn't work very hard or seemed to care how much of their own time they put into it.

uggers i just think they should be paid the same rates as teachers
after all thats what they are doing

they just have a fancy name for it

Can I just point out that they will also be paying considerably more tax than those on minimum wage.

William - there will always be the 'have' and the 'have nots'. Now some of the 'have nots' work hard, grasp life's opportunities and end up as a 'have'. In other circumstances some of the 'have' will not look after their inheritence etc and end up as 'have not's. Clogs to clogs in 3 generations. For instance I would not envy the Queen her life style - she has paid for it through hard work, no time to call her own, can't have a headache or a bad period (I do realise she does not have them now) and at the age of 85 she is still working a dammed sight harder than a lot of youngsters. Wealth cannot buy two important things - health and happiness.

Certainly Joy. When teachers have the fancy qualifications, ie doctorates, then they should indeed be paid as university lecturers are. In the meantime...