General Chat

Amanda's with me, I see!

"Charity begins at home" -- charity begins with *you*, as a certain Uncle Sam might have said. ;)

I'm not going to blow my own trumpet here but 20 years ago I heard about problems being faced by local people who were unemployed, living on benefits. I stood there saying, along with others "this is awful, someone should do something about it" So I did and 20 years down the line the charity I set up is still helping local people. I could give loads of anecdotes about people I have helped but I'm not going to. My daughter said to me just this week that it's easy to chuck money into a collection box - getting out there and doing something real about the problems is much harder.
So, I think my own actions speak for themselves!

Janey, a cousin of mine (his grandmother was a cousin of my grandmother) is a retired minister of The United Church in Canada :-)

That's what I was taught in the C of E, that your neighbour is your fellow human being, regardless of who they are. Parable of Good Samaritan springs to mind as an example.


So....charity BEGINS at home? or Charity STAYS at home? Many people act by the latter, believing they are acting by the former.

Really, Joy?? Where was he?

The minister who confirmed me was formerly a Baptist. ;)

Julia May - I hope you didn't think I was poking you. I thought your questions - where is home, who is neighbour? - were really rhetorical. I just ran with them. ;)

"Home" in the physical sense, our neighbourhood, our community, is where most of us have the most opportunity to *do* things, as you say. Charity is absolutely not just about putting money in boxes, or texting it to somewhere, I couldn't agree more.

He was at Brandon, Manitoba.

Manitoba, oh well. I was there once. ;) Not Brandon though. Winnipeg, corner of Portage and Main in February. That's Canuckistanian for "that place I don't believe in just froze over".

This planet is my home and I give money to the neighbours in the most need.

Currently that's those living in Haiti.

Gwynne

Morning Janey,

What a lovely, thought provoking thread to read on a sunday morning.

Well done to all who participated.

It is refreshing to see an informed and enlightening debate.

So please lets have more. I love reading them. So much healthier than all those critical slanging threads I have read recently.

I could actually feel LOVE coming through the words of the contributors and not the recent sarcasm and goading.

Loved it. Heart warming and makes one think.

Thankyou all. Have a good sunday.

SylviaG

Janey, I like your thread and if I may add what we are taught regards to charity ~ it is not something that can be bought a man either possesses it or not. It is love in the sense that we need to feel towards our fellow man, its love in a sense that we need to know compassion and it is love in a sense that we need to show empathy and at times sympathy, but it goes beyond love and some would argue its what makes us human ... to give is not to give ones money or possessions only - its to give part of ourselves and give it gladly and may I say with great Joy. I truly believe those who possess such charity are good souls indeed; which leads us to our neighbours - who are these people yes they may well be those around us - next door perhaps or across the street but the neighbours Paul is speaking of is any man in need - more needy than ourselves. Thank you for allowing me to contribute.

edit thanks to Ann "Apathy" means indifference so I have removed Im obviously not apathetic about the subject

Mel, can you check your post, I am sure you must mean empathy not apathy don't you?

thank yu Ann yes I don't why am I thinking apathy lol x

How odd (or maybe not) that you chose this weekend to post this thread Janey. As you probably know, the good old C. of E. has set readings for each Sunday.......and.....

the N.T. reading for this morning was.........


yep, dear old St. P. speaking to the Corinthians (I admit to having a soft spot for the guy actually).


It was the more modern version using Love rather than Charity and we looked at the word Love and the context thereof. Apparently, the Greeks have four words for our single word:


Eros (as in sexual/erotic etc) This word does not appear in the NT.


Storge (love for close family members) This word does not appear in the NT


Philia (brotherly love and possibly behind the name for Philadelphia) This word is mentioned 55 times in the N.T.


but the word to remember was


Agape (the highest and most noble form of love) rooted firmly in the personal character of God himself and used to describe a new attitude towards others - whether we like them or not. This word is used 312 times in the N.T.


So I guess, if we are thinking of Charity..........unlimited loving kindness to all others (whether we like them or not!)




ps. if you are ever in Manitoba again Janey let me know, could do with a dead rellie look up!! lol


Cx.

Hi Cynthia, Paul sure knew how to write a good letter! I like Paul beause he was honest and got right to the heart of the matter x

Cynthia - once a UCC social gospel Christian, always a UCC social gospel Christian, even if you become an atheist at 15. That's me! ;)

I was actually reading some of the CofE stuff on the net about agape etc before I started the thread - becuase I could remember eros and caritas but not agape, as the three I thought I remembered being the different kinds. Turns out caritas wasn't one of 'em after all, agape is the closest thing in the set.

I wonder how far in advance the CofE sets its schedule - or I see, this is the annual event, this Sunday is the day for that letter. Huh! Maybe the UCC follows the same schedule, and it's one of those anniversaries that lives only deep in your subconscious. ;)

Thank you Sylvia, and I agree, it was nice to come back this sunny afternoon (snow predicted for later on ...) and see the thread had more thoughts. And Footie too, yes, that's the New Testament take on it for sure.

Just to remind us though that it isn't an isolated Christian doctrine. I believe one of the set of comments I quoted at the start was from a Hindu discussion board, for instance.

And love thy neighbour as thyself is actually there in the Old Testament.

Leviticus 19:
18: Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

and then

Matthew 22:
36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38: This is the first and great commandment.
39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I think "love thy neighbour as thyself" is a value common to everyone -- religious or not, whether they admit it or live by it or not -- who isn't a sociopath. ;)

I have mixed feelings about St Paul...which is a shame as he said some wonderful things, those already mentioned , 'moved by God'

"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled" which lets face it is pretty powerful stuff...

but in the same breath :
1:10. For there are also many disobedient, vain talkers and seducers: especially they who are of the circumcision.
1:11. Who must be reproved, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

1:12. One of them a prophet of their own, said: The Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, slothful bellies.
1:13. This testimony is true. Wherefore, rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith:

IMHO his own prejudices coming through ....

And that's without even getting into his utter and complete misogyny, Rose. ;)

Women were created second, sinned first, and should sit down and shut up.

When one looks at the speech rather than the speaker, almost everyone has worthwhile things to say.

It is when one regards any individual as infallible or a hero/model - or conversely, as corrupt and unworthy of being heard - that one risks heading down a bad path -- or missing something worth hearing!

I think Paul preached humility, but may have failed to practise what he preached. ;)


(why am I having to fill in the "thread subject line" when I want to edit a typo in a post??)

There are two service books authorised by the C. of E. The Book of Common Prayer (BCP) and the more modern Book of Common Worship. These cover Baptisms, Marriage, Funerals and occasional services.

Readings are based on a 3 year cycle and presumably aim to cover as much of the bible as poss. These are published in a lectionary which also covers readings for Saints' Days etc.

For one who was reared in the Salvation Army, I find myself embracing the liturgy and richness of Anglican worship in a very affectionate (?) manner.

Cx.

Not a huge fan of Paul myself - he struck me as a misogynist.

1 Corinthians 11

3: But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5: but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head -- it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6: For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. 7: For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8: (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9: Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) 10: That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. 11: (Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12: for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.)

1 Corinthians 14 -

34: the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. 35: If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

1 Timothy 2

8: I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; 9: also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire 10: but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. 11: Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. 12: I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. 13: For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14: and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15: Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

Edit - posting at the same time as Janey, took me a while to find the quotes.