General Chat

In the past 10 years, my freedom has been continuously eroded by the state.

I can no longer :
Indulge in the sport of pistol shooting, go fox hunting, come to an amicable settlement regarding child maintenance, walk down a street without being filmed on CCTV, smoke a Cuban cigar in a pub with a glass of brandy after a meal, find an NHS dentist, cash a giro at a post office (if I wanted to). My mobile phone and emails are monitored, recorded and stored. My internet usage is monitored and my personal information is shared amongst a number of government agencies. Files relating to my financial circumstances are sold to anyone who is prepared to pay for it. ANPR ensures that wherever I go in my car I am tracked. And much more.

I addition, the state wants my DNA and wants to make me carry an ID card. Now whether or not you agree with these things is neither here nor there. They are freedoms that have been curtailed without my consent.

It amazes me that the majority of people in this country just blithely accept the growing totalitarian demands of the nanny state and will continue to do so until it is too late. Does anyone else think that the state interferes with and controls our lives to an unacceptable degree?

You may have nothing to hide, but plenty to fear.

Eldrick, I agree with everything you have said. I particularly resent having to PAY for an identity card. I have one already, issued in 1946, and has been good enough until now. Why should I have another one, just because some government quango says so,
Julia in Derbyshire

I however have gained the freedom to have a drink in the pub without my lungs being damaged by smoke and I don't agree with fox hunting either but you knew that anyway :)

However, apart from those issues I totally agree with everything you say and agree that people just blithely accept it and sometimes seem to encourage it. It is really worrying.

SRS - the point is that a compromise was available to both your points. But the state refused to take it and imposed blanket bans, thereby denying freedom of choice.

I don't mind having an ID card its no different to using my bus pass,
Its the paying of one that I object too .

And the CCTV I don't object to either, as if I'm ever attacked at least someone is watching !!


I agree on everything else you mentioned Eldrick..

Maybe with the smoking...... apart from those that had to work in the smoky environment. However, they may have been able to negotiate something.

Disagree with the fox hunting though, I don't see that as a sport.

However, I think that's a separate issue and don't want to take this excellent thread off at a tangent.

I have a passport, driving license, why do I need an id card?(when I have to pay for both of them to get renewed anyway)

I don't see CCTV actually helping anything. I'm not any safer because of it. It doesn't stop me getting attacked.

I do not like the thought of anybody using guns of any sort not even in sport.
I am glad fox hunting is banned,
I do not smoke so do not have an opinion on that.
I would not do or say anything that I would not want anyone to know about so being monitored or watched on CCTV is no threat
I pay £7 a month insurance for a dentist.
I no nothing about and therefore cannot give an opinion on child support or Giro cheques.
What I do on the internet is all innocent.
And a DNA test does not worry me, so none of it worries me.

Just wondering whether anyone on this thread has read 1984?

I have SRS and it is getting very much like it. I have also read Brave new world and the newspapers reported last week than scientists have managed to replicate sperm, very scary.

As for I.D's did anyone see the list of information which the goverment wanted to be held on these cards?

My son joins all groups to stop all this ......he even sent me a link the other day to say ......people are going to be micro chipped with their medicial records so when they go to other areas for treatment they can scan for teh info!!!

BUT what can we do to stop it .,....the public get swept into this nanny state stuff then before we have thought about it we are in it!!

Fox hunting isnt a sport- it's essential vermin control!



xxxxxxx mick

I agree with you 100% Eldrick....and I do resent the loss of many of the freedoms we've always taken for granted as being our right for living in a democracy.

One of the problems of why we don't fight for our freedoms is that we are too apathetic nowadays. Whether this is because we are too tired from working (and travelling) long hours to put food on the table and keep a roof over our heads.......or because we really are apathetic, I don't know?

I don't know if there is any truth in this or if it is *scaremongering* but I read that when the ID cards become compulsory, that every time it is used as evidence of identity e.g. when withdrawing money from your bank account the details of those transactions will be sent to Inland Revenue.......to help them combat money laundering of course, no other reason...yeah right!!!!

Mary

With regard to shooting, not ALL shooting kills animals,
The sport of target shooting is an Olympic discipline.
and thanks to our government, in 2012,England will, in my opinion hardly have any showing worth bragging about......regarding pistol shooting.

Lord Roberts of Kandahar, after being dismayed, nay disgusted at the poor showing of english shooters who had been routed by the Boers, initiated the Society of small bore shooting clubs, mainly to get civilians that MAY be needed to defend their country, up to speed on marksmanship.

at 100 yards the requirement is to hit a bullseye about the size of a 10 P piece and at 50 metres the size of a 5 p piece, at 25 yards or less the aim is to get the shot entirely INSIDE the bullseye ,

no animals are harmed during this process,!

but having said all that, I agree with Eldrick, we are being monitored one way or another 24 hours a day,
you do of course realise that not only is your car tracked along the motorway but your mobile phone is also, even if you are not making calls?
your credit cards and cash transactions, etc also.
You are on camera in most stores and shops these days......

as has often been said " If you have nothing to hide......."

rubbish!!

EVERYONE has, at times something to hide,

whether its an illicit relationship, or a habit, down to maybe keeping a birthday present secret......

Bob

Yes, we sadly live in a 'ban it to cure it and get votes' culture. The overwhelming majority of people think that it doesn't affect them. They look at the single issues and think 'Yes, I don't agree with blah blah so it's good to ban it'. Or 'I never do anything wrong so having an ID card doesn't affect me'.

They never look to the future, when the BNP gains ascendency or for 'National Security' reasons all members of the 'Say No to Europe' party get rounded up and interned. When the door gets kicked in in the early hours of the morning and husbands and sons are dragged away because they have been filmed or recorded talking to 'subversives'. When you can't get life insurance because your DNA shows a genetic propensity to an illness or disease, when your car is innocently recorded somewhere sensitive because you lost your way, and any other scenario you care to think of.

Scares the beejasus out of me. History repeats itself all the time.

People who feel that strongly about not having their personal information tracked......do they refuse to have, and benefit from, loyalty points cards?

Only a minor snoop I agree but it is still insidious nonetheless.

Agree with you Eldrick.
I read 1984 many years ago and can see how real it's becoming.
As for calling it a 'Nanny state' , I can't agree. I think it's a very clever ploy - 'Nanny' is there to look after you - do things for your benefit ' 'Nanny knows best' etc. In reality we are becoming a dictatorship. There will be NO smoking etc.
As for those of you who say 'I have no problem with any of it - I do nothing wrong' - you may not believe you do - but you're not the one who decides!
Remember this poem?

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me -
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.


Pastor Martin Niemöller

This is a very interesting thread Eldrick - and I'm glad you raised the subject.
I agree with everything you said. Yes, I do worry about what I regard as the creeping cancer of "State Control".
This is still a fine country, and we have much to be thankful for.
However, I do worry about the future of the children, and I wonder just how far we will go down this road before Joe Public stands up, and says
"Enough is Enough"
I feel that the old cliche of "It's a free country" no longer applies, and this saddens me.

Regards
Tec.

Maggie, I have to disagree with you on one point.....you say "In reality we are becoming a dictatorship".........I say no, we have already become one. :-)))

Sue, loyalty cards are not even in the same category - we each have a choice as to whether we agree to have one or not. The other issues raised by Eldrick are all imposed upon us whether we like them or not.

Mary

I totally agree with your statement Eldrick. The nanny state has taken away too many of our freedoms.

They do this by a process of divide & rule (as in the case of smokers & fox hunting). This is done, by by targeting minority groups. In the knowledge that the majority won't complain, because they have the attitude of "Well it doesn't affect me."

Also our freedoms are eroded by process creep. As in CCTV. When the 1st cameras were installed, people welcomed them. Because it was on the premise of reducing crime in problem places.
Gradually more & more are installed. Other bodies decide they want to use them for their own purposes. ie issuing parking fines. Schools install them to monitor & protect pupils. Businesses not only use them to for security, but also to monitor their employees............Now they're everywhere.

The police are in the process of installing ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) cameras to cover the entire motorway & main road system of the UK. This is to catch the road tax dodgers & to monitor, track & catch criminals.

I'm all for catching the crims & making the town safer for people to walk about.
But all it takes is a change of legislation, or a far right or left government voted in. And these will be used not to monitor people but to control peoples movements. And to a certain extent this has all ready happened.

Gets off soap box..........& looks around in a paranoid manner. lol

Steve.

Yes, very true. 'Nanny State' is a misnomer, that's for sure.

History shows that all totalitarian regimes begin by banning things, whether it be membership of an organisation or whatever. This is done under the guise of 'it's for the common good' or 'we know best'.

For example - CCTV is there to prevent crime - so we are told. Actually, it doesn't prevent crime at all. The best you can say about it is that it makes the job of catching an offender easier. It's a believable myth that it has any overall impact on crime prevention. Believe me, it doesn't. In some cases, it might move the problem, but it doesn't solve it.