Genealogy Chat

Oh blimey Selena, bless, you are thinking about this more than me now. :)

Still havent seen her birth as Ellen.. Seems strange to call a kiddie Ellen Elinor doesnt it!! Id have put money on the "E" being for Emily as is her mum and gran.

Just thinking aloud again Heather. So we think she is Ellen. Could she be down as Helen or Nellie?

Selena

Oh Lou you wonderful girl. You are good, Im glad I checked on here first as I was about to start trawling the marriage index today (squeezing it in between my proper work!) working back from that birth year. Thats brilliant, bless you, my eyes are rather dodgey and I was dreading another trawl after doing all the Towler births yesterday - seriously my neck is killing me today and the headache!!

And Christine, thanks so much to you too. You are all so kind.

Oh fantastic, off to order that cert. I mean that must be the right one mustnt it - my gawd how many names did this girl make up???Have to say its not that surprising, my aunt says that the mother (and we know she is the mum now!!) was a fantasist who would call herself different names and turn up in Rotherhithe dressed like a duchess! My nan scornfully said that the mother worked as a "hostess" in a mens club in the west end. (hmmm)

Bless you Selena, how kind you lot are - its amazing how working with others makes mysteries so much easier to solve. Many thanks everyone.

Yes, a quick look for an Ellen is due but then, I think we trawled all Elinor kids born in the right period didnt we.I should think she was a bit like mum and used different names at different times. The incredible thing is a while back I heard from someone in Aus who had the same line - the cousin of the fantastist mother - and without her knowing that she said to me, "I believe he was some sort of Walter Mitty character as he has changed his name three times from when he was born in England and told people he helped rebuilding San Francisco after the earthquake" - he had adopted the name of an american author by the time he got to Aus! So obviously something that was in that line of the family.

But what a lesson to learn - I mean that death, Id have put money on a Jenny Ellnor in Greenwich being the Jenny Elinor we had been looking for.

Oh I wish Id found the birth cert though - but never mind - the matter is settled - thanks to your help.

Ellen J B - could it be Ellen Jenny Beatrice?

Wish I could have a trawl but am in work!

Selena

There is a marriage Q3 1923 Greenwich 1d 2031

Robert F to Elinor

Christine

Beat me to it Lou, should have refreshed the page.

Hi Heather,

I found a marriage in Sep Quarter 1923 of a Robert F Towler to an Ellen J B Elinor Greenwich 1d 2031.

Lou

WOO HOO

Ive just completed about 20 years of trawling - looking for Towler children (auntie had said Beatrice married "a Towler" - and Ive found a child Towler born Greenwich 1926 with a mmn ELINOR - well thank goodness for that.

NOW, to find a marriage!!

Giving up for tonight,eyes aching, neck aching, feel sick looking at the images. But at least we know who was mum now. But, what about this death???? Did Jenny (Beatrice) really marry the Towler chap - this is the right place for a death and right age???

Name: Jenny Ellner
Birth Date: 12 Apr 1896
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 1988
Age at death (estimated): 92
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: London
Volume: 12
Page: 891

I am now wondering whether the Beatrice Maud Ellnor in Wisbech is in fact worth a punt. I had thought that as sister Irene died in Rotherhithe in 1895 that it was very unlikely Fred and Emily would be outside Rotherhithe when Beatrice was born but in the absence of finding any other birth cert. (What a family!!!)

I am most grateful for each and everyones help on this one. It does help so much sometimes to have a sounding board doesnt it - it clarifies the situation with these question and answer sessions. Many thanks people. A couple of certs to buy I think :)

Bless Selena! please dont waste sleep over it - it will come to light some time.

Christina, I dont think that girl in Wisbech is the one - there is a big contingent of Ellnors living there and as the other kids were born in Rotherhithe and as it says Rotherhithe for Beatrice then I think we can be pretty sure they never went up to Cambridgeshire.

Im guessing the E for the middle name is Emily - as is her gran and as is the suspected mothers first name. I have looked for an Emily aswell on the premise 3 Emilys in the house could have been confusing but no luck.

But good thought about the Elinor being Eleanor - I mean thats how we found little Irene in the bmd with Eleanor as the surname - yes, good thought.. HOWEVER, where is the *********** cert.

What about Jenny/Ginny? Just a pet name perhaps.

Several Jenny's born St Olave right time but no matching surname.

Would parish records help at all?

So frustrating! Will be lying in bed thinking about this.

Selena

Hi thanks so much everyone. I actually knew these three - Charlotte was my great aunt Wag(she married a Delacour - who is missing above) and Sarah was great aunt Sal (who married the Windridge chap). Mary Ann was aunt sis, she never married.

Yes, thats them all in the 1881.

Im going on my aunt's opinion re the girl - but to be honest, whoever the mum or dad was - where is that birth cert??

1901:

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 160
Household Members: Name Age
Beatrice E Horstead 5
Charlotte Horstead 22
Edward J Horstead 61
Edward J Horstead 29
Emily A Horstead 60
Henry Horstead 27
James Horstead 18
Mary A Horstead 24
Sarah Horstead 20

The 18 year old James is my grandfather, who I never met.

Can't see a marriage for Mary Ann.

Marriages Mar 1907
Bunn Florence Mary A St. Olave 1d 327
HORSTEAD Charlotte St. Olave 1d 327
Woods John St. Olave 1d 327

Marriages Jun 1911
Horstead Sarah St. Olave 1d 371
Hughes Margaret St. Olave 1d 371
MORGAN Evan St Olave 1d 371
Windridge James J St.Olave 1d 371

Heather is this the right family in 1881?

Do you know who other children married?

Emily A. HORSTEAD Wife (Head) M Female 40 Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Emily A. HORSTEAD Daur Female 12 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Scholar
Edward John HORSTEAD Son Male 10 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Scholar
Henry David HORSTEAD Son Male 7 Wapping, Middlesex, England Scholar
Mary Ann HORSTEAD Daur Female 5 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Scholar
Charlotte HORSTEAD Daur Female 3 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Sarah Ann HORSTEAD Daur Female 7 m Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Charlotte M. STEERS Mother W Female 71 Bermondsey, Surrey, England

Heather, how many siblings did Emily have? Is it at all possible that Beatrice was the illegitimate child of a sister or maybe the child of a brother - just because she was there on day of Census doesn't mean that she lived there.

You said that Beatrice was born 1896 but her 'supposed' Mother married in 1891 - I would think that she would have given the child her husband's name, regardless of marital status at the time.

M. Steer

Thanks Peter but that would be too far away to be this family.

There is a Beatrice Maud Ellnor (no 'i') b Sep Q 1895 in Wisbech........

Peter

No fraid not. My Emily Ann Elizabeth married a George Cooper 1916

1 Elinor Emily A E Cooper St Olave.1d 322 Marriage 2 1916 .

My aunt knew him - said that he and Emily had been in a relationship for years before they married and had a business together. I guess they were waiting for a spouse to kick the bucket before they made it legal. Thats why Id also searched for a Beatrice Cooper :)

(Minor point but consistent, the other lot in Rotherhithe have two lls and this Suffolk bunch that Emily Ann married into keep to one l)

That's an Ellinor babe, not a bloke, in that marriage, Heather. ;)

(Ah, you meant the dad in those birth records, I get it.)

But isn't that marriage your Emily Horstead Elinor getting rehitched?

Hi Selena, afraid thats the other Ellinor family in Rotherhithe (1901) and as far as I could see not related to my Elinor lot. This Ellinor bloke was born Southwark whilst my chap was from Suffolk. Same goes for the kids on the births - those and several more are all belonging to this family.

Many thanks for the thought though :)

Do you know if this is connected in anyway?

Marriages Dec 1915
Callaghan John Ellinor St.Olave 1d 597
Ellinor Emily E Callaghan St.Olave 1d 597

Heather, are any of these your lot?

Births Jun 1893
Ellinor Thomas Henry St. Olave 1d 245

Births Jun 1895
Ellinor Mary Ann St. Olave 1d 259

Births Jun 1897
Ellinor Charlotte St. Olave 1d 240

Selena