Genealogy Chat

Hi Lisa yes that is what I wondered when I saw the South African birth.
I had a quick look on google map I think i did it right although it was called the Flagler childrens home it was in Miami itself think it was sw 14th street ( put the records away now) but I think it was only just over a mile away from where the Womacks lived though further away from where Leah lived when she died that was SW 41st street. Carol Way village.
i bet that he delivered bread and with the South African connection they became friends.
John lived in think it was sw 7th ave. I know they all seemed quite close excpet for where Leah died so thikn they may all ahve ben friends at one time and she staye din touch with the Womacks. MAkes sense.
Thanks again for all the help.
Germaine
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I tried a MapQuest search - Flagler is about 4 miles from N.W. 26th Street.

The reason I mentioned the Womack's is because of the South Africa birth.

I couldn't find the Womack's in prior census but Joseph's birth is supposedly Virginia in 1895. Maybe John met Joseph's father before his trip to South Africa?

PS Meant to say Grace's father!
1910 census: cannot find any Grace's born c1900 with a father born in South Africa.

Ah thanks Lisa .
Wonder if the South African thing made them friends as John Musgrave was there in the early 1900's gave them something in common making them friends.
Will keep this in the records.
Will have to look at all the address I have see how far apart they must have lived to each other.
Thanks again
Germaine
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This doesn't help with their deaths, but in case you want to add to your existing information (you may already have it):

1930 United States Federal Census
Name: Joseph W Womack
Home in 1930: Miami, Dade, Florida
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Birthplace: Virginia
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's name: Grace
Race: White
Occupation: Salesman; Bread Route
Rent/home value: Rent
Age at first marriage: 25 (Grace: 21)
Parents' birthplace: Virginia
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph W Womack 35
Grace Womack 30, Virginia
Lewis Womack 8, West Virginia
Mildred Womack 3 1/12, Florida
Richard Womack 1 2/12, Florida
Grace's mother was born in Virginia; her father was born in South Africa.
Enumerated April 9, 1930
Their address might be N.W. 26th St

Oh just noticed Charles P Leadbetter married in Detroit in 1928. I don't know if they just went there to marr or if they ever lived there.
Germaine
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Hi Lisa Thanks
Yes from what we have learnt Charles was on a trip back to UK about 1930 thinking maybe John and Leah with him. None of them seem to show up in 1930 There were a few of them went to USA all together and only one of the families shows up in 1930 so think they all came home for a visit.
I do have Charles and his wife going back think it was about 1932 off hand.
Yes that is the Leah I found in 1929 it looked to me as though she could have been a governess or something for the Jermyn family which would tallly with her going on to be matron of the childrens home. Also the family she worked for was the son of the Mayor of Scranton a very wealthy family so that would make good ref for her when she got to Florida.
It did say born in Scranton and her age wrong but as we go along with this family they weren't worried about the odd lie or two and on checking the 1930 no other Leah Musgrave shows up does she so I really think it is her.
Yes I at first thought Billie female but as you say have seen males use it to.
The informant on Leahs death was Jos ( take it as Joseph) W Womack. address 660 or 680 W Flagler St. Miami.
Thanks for taking the time to look Lisa.
Germaine
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Still don't see Billie, but haven't done a thorough search. Do you have the informant's name for Leah?

You mentioned Scranton in 1929.

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Leah Musgrave
Arrival Date: 10 Apr 1929
Estimated birth year: 1884
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Hamilton, Bermuda
Ship Name: Bermuda
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Nativity: Pennsylvania
Line: 15
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_4467
Birth Location: Pennsylvania
Birth Location Other: Scranton
Page Number: 251

Her age is off (not that unusual) but it lists her as born in Scranton. Names directly above her were Edmund Jermyn and his family - all born in Scranton. Wonder if there were two Leah's in Scranton, if she claimed she was born in Scranton, or if someone made a mistake on the manifest.

Do not see a Leah Musgrave in Scranton in 1930 - so maybe the above is your Leah.

Hi Germaine

Thank you for including all of the information. I searched last night and couldn't find anything.

I was also looking around for Charles Leadbetter, as he was supposed to have lived in Carbondale, in case there were any leads with him. Also having trouble finding him.

Looked briefly for Billie and didn't see him/her. I've only known female Billie's, but looking at 1930 census, there were actually males with that name.

Will print out your two postings later and look around more another time. Sorry I couldn't find anything now.

Hi Lisa yes he is down as a painter though when he went out there he was down as a pit man and before that an amalgamtor ( gold).
He was in Scranton with a family who had a paint business so we think he must have gone on to work for him. He ( the boss) left USA in about 1936 he was poorly and came home. This tallies with wehn the Musgraves went to Florida.
Germaine
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Hi Lisa I don't have their social security numbers sorry.
Dates of birth.
Leah nee Leadbetter May 1877 born in Isle of Man.
John Musgrave born June 1874 Cumberland, England.
I know they were in Scranton PA in 1929 well she was. They moved to Miami in about 1936/77.
She is matron of a childrens home in Flagler St. Miami from about 1937 - 1943.
Couldn't find them in 1930 but think they may have been on one of their trips over here then. Not sure there was talk of Canada.
If you would see if you could find anything I would be grateful.
Like you say she could have said she was a widow we thought that it would look better in her position wouldn't it.
Don't know if you can find anything on the informant on his death it just says Billie Bullough.
Not sure if this could be male or female.
Some one got me what we think is the informant on hers it looks like it could be just a friend but his address wasn't the same. Don't laugh got him 20 years earlier as a bread salesman so think he could well have been a friend who deliverd bread to the home. Seems logical. Wild guess.
Have got them going to USA in 1923.
Oh got him going to South Africa in 1901.
Think that is it. Don't want you wasting your time if we already have the info,
going off now it is late but will look in in the morning
Thanks for all your help
Germaine
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Germaine, being Canadian, I don't know what information you could obtain if you have their social security numbers.

A friend had rellies in Washington state and in 1930 one spouse is listed as widow, even though her husband lived a couple of blocks away. If I remember correctly, they were "sharing" the children, so they both knew no one had died.

I could look again for your two, if you like? Don't remember their dates of birth, though.
-----------
PS Found your posting elsewhere, so I now have the dates and places of birth.

Do you know what his occupation was?

Hi Lisa
We still haven't found a marriage are beginning to think they never really married.
Still waiting to see if we can get any info from the funeral parlours. No further info on the burial from the memorila park . I have written again to see if they were different religions see if that will answer the mystery.
But we think they were estranged on his death cert. although it has her name as wife it doesn't have her age and the informant we are not sure if it was male of female ( Billie sounds femlae) lived at his address it only has her name as wife but where it says to give her age if still alive it is blank as if the informant didn't know.
Also on the 1940 directory she is down as matron of the local childrnes home but it says she is widow of John. So he is not named. But he didn't die till 1941
Tell you one thing after the other with these two but been a very interesting journey.
Yes his death does look sudden.
Germaine
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Germaine: How disappointing that you weren't able to find more rellies. :(

I don't remember, were John and Leah married? If so, I wonder why they weren't buried together. Perhaps their deaths were a bit unexpected? Or, perhaps it was less costly to purchase the single plots.

I hope you were given burial information?

Well it seems that there are not 3 bodies in one grave it is just the number of the grave. They are each single graves.
Germaine
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John Musgrave is buried at Sect 6 lot 285 grave 6 only John is buried here

Leah Musgrave is buried at Sect 7 lot 278 grave 3 only Leah is buried here

Ah thanks Lisa.
So there may be even more in the grave.
It just confused us as it gives John Musgraves name but he died in 1941 then it goes on to give the date in 1951 which i the date that his wife was buried.
I have emailed them now to ask if they can clarify it.
Also am writing to the funeral home to see if they have records going back that far.
We have the date ( but only year)of what we think may be another family member so they may be able to help.
Oh thanks for the map quest pointer.
I did look on google maps and it did look a big place, I was suprised when that was the only info they gave me, think we should have said blow the cost and rang ourselves.
Thanks again fro all your help making it easier to understand.
Germaine
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You can view a photograph of the cemetery on MapQuest. It's a very large cemetery, so they should have some sort of map.

Just rereading your post:
"I suppose if he bought the grave and only wanted 3 in it then that would be why it was 3 space."

If their records are like the ones I've read in Canada, I believe your rellie was in the third space in the grave (not that the grave held three). They can actually tell by the plot or space number where in the grave the people are buried. (A little too much information I think, but I guess helpful.) :(

Ah Kathryn thanks I wasn't sure on them but think I will give them a go. No I couldnn't see a web site.
Oh thanks for the last one didn't find them.

Germaine
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Here ya go! Google found it by ignoring the "s".

http://www.nexport.com/company.cfm?company=1603269_PHILBRICK_LITHGOW_FUNERAL_CHAPEL_FUNERAL_DIRECTOR_SERVICE_CORAL_GABLES_FL

PHILBRICK & LITHGOW FUNERAL CHAPEL
100 ALHAMBRA CIR
CORAL GABLES, FL
33134-4503
Phone: 305-446-1616

It doesn't seem to have its own website and I'm not seeing an email address anywhere it's referred to.


And I think you have the cemetery, but for good measure:

Flagler Memorial Park
Jorge Cotte
5301 W. Flagler St.
Miami, FL 33134
(305) 446-7625
Fax (305) 470-2647
E-mail Unavailable

I don't know why, but that listing isn't on the current page:
http://www.fcafl.com/regular.html
but is in google's cached version.