Genealogy Chat

After months of searching for my Husbands (VERY common names) grandparents and not understanding why I couldn't tie them together on 1901 decoder despite trying every age combination, yesterday I think I may have found his Grandfather but his wife is not staying at the same address that night. He appears to be with his Mother at the house of his Sister and Brother in Law. He is listed as married and I know that she would be alive in 1901 (if this is the right one)as they had children in 1904 and 1909. Has anyone any suggestions why the wife might not be with him. Now I have typed all this I realise it's a stupid question but any suggestions gratefully recieved. Thanks -Chrissie

Hi Chrissie Did they marry before 1901? Sorry, have just read your message again and see that he was married, so have you found the marriage? Heather

Hi Heather. No, that's been the problem all along. I have trawled through 1837 but I am beginning to think that I may not have gone back far enough. I know they had a son who was older than the one born in 1904 and I have looked for a marriage from 1895 to 1904 with no luck. They lived in Nottingham but I found a marriage on freebmd in Wiltshire in 1882 with the same names but have been unable to track the couple and the names are so common that it probably isn't them. The man I found on 1901 sounded a likely possibility because he is listed as Barman (born Nottingham) and Barman is given on the 1904 childs birth certificate. Sometimes I feel like giving up (my own names have been so much easier to find)but my Hubby would so like to know about them so I shall plod on. Thanks for your interest. Chrissie. p.s. It's Harry SMITH/Martha Spencer so you see my problem!!!!

Hi Chrissie How old was he in 1901? Heather

Hi Heather. He is 42 (the Barman on 1901) which I felt would also fit in with the fact that I know he died approx 1941 - 1947 and was an elderly gentleman. Cheers - Chrissie

Chrissie Just a thought but perhaps he is at the bottom of a page and his wife at the top of the next, you won't see that with the census decoder. I found this with my family, the youngest child was on the next page. Heather

Thanks for the thought Heather, but he WAS at the bottom of the page so I looked at the next page with no luck. By the way, I have just realised that I have got 3 credits left on 1901 to use up by tommorow morning if there is anything that you would like me to look at for you? The thing that has always baffled me is why (when they were obviously at least late 30's in 1901) there weren't any more children,apart from as said, 1904 - 1909 and approx 1900/1903. Oh well, I shall find them one day!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks - Chrissie

Chrissie was his official name Harry or was he a Henry? It may be why you can't find his marriage and he's not with who you suspect on the census (apologies if you've done the Henry thing already). Zoe

Chrissie Can you do an address search for his household on 1901? I think it's possible. Also could you get a look-up for him in 1891 to see if he was married to Martha. Another thought, perhaps Martha was a widow when she married him so different surname. I looked at the 1901 census, so many Marthas, I can see your problem! Heather

Hi Both. Zoe I believe that his official name was Harry as this was on both the birth certificates that I have, but when I find a Martha Spencer married in Nottingham (or anywhere) I do check the Henry's as well thanks. I am wondering if I should check 1837 before 1895, but I thought that as the first child was born around 1900/1902 this would be early enough as they seemed to start breeding straight away in those days!!! Heather I'm not quite sure what you mean about the Household search on 1901. I have the address for Harry the barman as I paid for the census.Robin Hood has been kind enough to try and find them for me on 1891 Nottm, but the names are too common.Perhaps I could pluck up the courage to ask him to look for this barman for me, but I hate to keep bothering him. I know Martha was a spinster as my Husbands Cousin remembers her Father being called "Donkey" Spencer because he had a small removal firm in Nottingham (which is another reason I don't think the Wiltshire couple can be the right one). Thanks so much for all your interest. Even putting it down like this helps to clear my head a bit. Don't forget, if either of you want a 1901 census before 11.00am tomorrow the offer is there. Cheers - Chrissie

Could it be that Martha didn't marry as a SPENCER but as Widow ?? and that's why you haven't found their marriage. If she was roughly the same age as the 42 years old barman, she would be getting towards the end of her childbearing years but if it WAS her 2nd marriage perhaps her family with Harry started late. Have you found the 1882 couple in 1891? I see from freebmd that they are the only 2 names on the page so they did not necessarily marry each other. Can you find Harry and Martha in 1881 to get a birthplace, or is that too daunting?......Ah. I am trying to fix an ailing washing machine here and came back to see that much of what I wrote doesn't apply! Can you find a SPENCER removal firm in Nottingham in any census and link Martha to it?

Hi Both I have just found a Martha Smith in Nottingham on 1901 who is a Licensed Victualler aged 35. Married but head of the family who was unfortunately born in Leeds(which may not tie up with her Father, mentioned previously). No husband present but sons Frederick 15 and Clarance 10 - both born in Leeds. She lives in a tavern. Can't get my head around all this. I think it's back to looking for a marriage. Incidentally, I may be able to find Martha's death as I know that she died in Nottingham between 1910 and 1917 but would this give me her d.o.b. in those days do you know please? Thanks again for all your interest - Chrissie

Hi Chrissie Sorry yet again, I hadn't read your message properly where you said that you'd checked the next page, an address search would only tell you what you already know. I'm not sure but think that the people on the Records board with access to Ancestry have an index to the 1891 census so they might find Harry more easily than Robin Hood if he's trawling through the census discs. Thank you for the offer of 1901 look-up, that is very kind but I can't think of anything at the moment. Heather

Hi Gwyneth You have a point about the widow theory. On the 2 birth certs that I have it says Martha Smith nee Spencer, but I suppose she could have missed out her first married name. Oh dear, you realise what that would mean, where on earth would I start then!!!!!!!!!!! I have the marriage certificate for the 1882 Wiltshire couple but somebody tried to find them for me in 1891 Wiltshire with no success or Nottingham. I had a look on family search to see if I could find them in Wiltshire single in 1881 but the names are so common that you can't tell whether who have found them or not!!! Thanks for the tips. The offer of 1901 census goes for you too. Cheers - Chris

Have you seen the 1901 image? I ask because I too had 'lost' a wife/mother from the census. As she was a DAVIES in Wales, it was a bit like your problem,and where do you start looking? - but when I viewed the actual printout, there she was, bold as brass even though she doesn't feature on the index.

Hi again Heather Thanks for the tip. I will try the records board for a look up for the barman in Nottingham 1891. I asked for a lookup for Wiltshire yesterday, they will be sick of seeing me!! I don't have ancestry yet (hoping to get it for my birthday in Dec) but have tried to help people in the past on 1837 and 1901 so perhaps I shouldn't feel so guilty. All this has been very helpful in spurring me on (except perhaps the thought that she might have married Harry under a different name UGH LOL) Thanks again to everyone - Chrissie

Yes thanks Gwyneth - I got the image yesterday which is why I have 3 to spare. I got the barman and 2 pages of the licenced victualler mentioned above. All good ideas though. Cheers - Chris

The wife may just have been staying somewhere else on census night. I found a great-aunt staying as a visitor with the gt grandparents, and her surname coupled with the fact that she was "sister-in-law" to head of household enabled me to find out my gt grandmother's maiden name. - Gt grandfather was a Williams, and they are almost as bad as Smith!

Hi Helen Thanks - That's what I suspected, but how on earth do you find a Martha Smith that could be any age from about 20-40 that could be staying with anyone, anywhere in the country!!!! I'm so glad you found yours. I think that I am going to have to try and find them another way. Does ANYONE know if a death certificate (one about 1910/1917 and the other about 1940/1947) would give date of birth please. Cheers - Chris

Well, Every Easter I take my children from Wales to London, and stay with my parents without my other half . So if they ever did census near Easter holidays it would look like I live in London with my parents as a single mother. (There is no Box for that on the current census!)Whereas we are just on hols.... So just because she is not with her husband doesn't mean all that much. Maybe if he was a barman he worked long Hours and on the Sunday night had not yet got back to his own home. Also my great grandparents had one child in 1899 and another in 1910 and none at all in between, despite being poor and normally people of that era, breeding like rabbits!(I think there may have been a few "Love children " about though!) Kim