Genealogy Chat

Just a few updates on information on here.
Firstly it is the Bishops of parts of Cork, Kerry and Tipperary that refuse to allow anyone, including Irish people themselves to get infoemation about their rellies. Their excuse is that the records are Church property????.
The address of G.R.O. now is The Irish Mall, Abbey Street, Dublin.
Prices for non certified copies of B/M/Ds is 4euros each, Full day research is 20euros. 5 years consecitive books cost 2euros to search through.Mothers maiden name is included from 1902.
If you think that Relitave was in British Army/Navy/Air force and they or wife died overseas or had children born overseas they are registered in the back of the book. Late registerions are also recorded in the back of the books.
The 5 copies a day includes everyone including Irish, but they will post Free any extra copies that you find, but it will take about 10 days.
One tip, if you have anyone visiting with you, get them to hand up 5 copies as well writing their names on bottom of request, that way you will get 10 copies instead of 5.
Betty.

Nudged-lots of interesting info. on here for anyone with Irish ancestors-
thank you!! Margot :-D :-D

Peter Do you know that when you are in the Dublin GRO now and you pay your 15euro for the day, you can only get FIVE PHOTOCOPIES in one day, so if you need more (which nearly everyone does) you have to come back another day. They refuse to use checkpoints for these photocopies so there were a few people like me with five useless photocopies, and the prospect of having to go back and do the whole thing over again, was very unapealing to me, and I am sure others as well. Pat x

Just like to add a bit from our own experience in researching Irish Genealogy. Pam's grandfather Alphonsus Berkeley was born in Dublin, 1891. Fortunately we knew his date of birth with some certainty and it was possible to ordrer his birth certificate by post. This was extremely useful as it obviously provided an address and details of his parents. Earlier this year we had a short holiday in Ireland and spent a couple of days doing genealogy research in Dublin. We had given quite a bit of thought to what we should spend our time on and genned up on where the various records were held and how we might best spend our limited time. There are three main sources of information. The easiest to access by far are the BMD records at the General Register Office. For just Euro 15 for a whole day you have unlimited access to the entire records. In the space of a single morning we found the marriage of our g grandfather Berkeley and several of grandad's siblings in the births, plus quite a few 'possible' relatives, for future reference. At a cost of Euro 1.90 you can have a photocopy of the entry in the register, not so pretty as a full certificate, granted, but provides the same information and much much cheaper than the £7 we have to pay, plus you get it there and then without having to wait. The National Archives have copies of the 1901 and 1911 Censuses. These are on microfilm and are of reasonable to good quality. You do need to have an address to start with thouh as there are no indexes at present. The records are similar to our on UK census returns but with the added advantage that the family names are summarised at the start of each folio which helps. Finally, The National Library has microfilm containing parish registers. We found these record much more difficult to research, mainly as the quality is very mixed, whith many being almost impossible to read. You need to find a good working microfilm reader in a dark part of the room. We managed to find a couple of births, bur ran out of time before we could look at the marriage records for gg grandfather, which is our next target. Regards, Peter and Pam

Twinkle Please remember that all church/state records of BMD and Census in any country was never instigated with Genealogists and Family Historians in mind. They were started as a way of nations finding out how many people were being born, were getting married, having children and dying so that the nations could cope with their populations. If churches seem churlish when you write for info do please remember that they are busy people and running a genealogy centre is not seen as part of their duties. Even the IGI started by the Mormon Church was not done for genealogical or family history reasons but purely as a matter of gaining as many souls as possible for their own church and this is still the same today, but those of us who use it fully realise that we all have our own free will to choose whether or not our souls are being saved for the Mormons or not. The fact that we all happen to use these records is purely incidental. I have to say that when I have visited any church in Ireland and asked to see records I have never been refused. But we do tend to do it through B&B's which offer a genealogy service ie they tend to pave the way for us by introducing us to the local PP etc. I also agree with Theresa when she says that some of the info from the Heritage Centres is often unreliable, as I had to work through some errors given to me by the Brian Boru Centre in Tipperary and discovered a lot more info when I was able to search the church registers myself. That is a very kind offer Theresa, thankyou. Janet

I studied Irish History 1800-1922 at university. There was lots of wrongdoing and betrayl on both sides and if the Irish want to carry those huge grudges through life then that's their choice. However, genealogy isn't a politically or religiously motivated hobby. The LDS have Irish parish records, the Ulster Historical Foundation claims to be putting some online, and there must be others. There is even a certificate exchange site for Ireland. Yet there have been GR members who have written to Irish churches requesting information and been told politely to shove their genealogical interest. The 1901 and 1911 censuses have been released; if someone was able to make that decision, then should getting it transcribed really be such a wild idea?

Janet Thanks for ALL the information you have given me. You are so knowledgeable about Irish History,you must be like a walking encyclopedia. Glad to know that I can go to the County Library if the Cork GRO is going to have a waiting list of 2 yrs. I found my great grandad on the 1881 census for Derbyshire on that it said the place of birth was Halifax York which is only about 1/2hrs drive from where I live. But on the 1871 census for Derbyshire it said that he was born in Ireland but as you say he wouldn't be on the Griffiths Valuation if he wasn't born in Ireland. I am going to find the Parish Records in Halifax Yorkshire first then go to Ireland next year. Thanks once age for all your help.. Sue

Sue Have you tried the Overseas Regimental Indexes which are now on line through 1837? These are the same indexes that are in tthe Family Record Centre in London in big books If he was in the army getting married and having a first child he should be in those indexes. That is where I found mine getting married in Ireland and having his first child there in 1865 and 1866. If it was Cork it is probably around the Fermoy area(The Curragh was a big barracks) Your soldier may well have served during the Crimea War as well as the Indian Mutiny? Failing that write or E mail the Dublin office to obtain the certificates that way. Address: GRO Civil Registration of BDM Joyce House 8-11 Lombard Street East Dublin 2 Tel: (01) 6711000 To find E mail Google"GRO Dublin" For the above you will need to know the date of marriage and date of birth. If you are going to Ireland and wish to visit the Cork GRO then I would suggest you E Mail them as I was shocked to hear recently that there is a 2 year waiting list to access the Cork Archives but maybe this was just hearsay! If your soldier is Irish then he should be on Griffiths as this was a head count of all Irish people living in Ireland taken about 1850ish. Any other nationality and he will not appear on Griffiths. Every Irish head of household should be on Griffiths. If he married an Irish girl her family will be on there somwhere, but the key for you is to find his marriage first which will give her father's name. For what its worth we were in Cork in the summer and we used the County Library rather than the main GRO in the Centre and we found that quite adequate for what we wanted and not at all crowded or even having to book. They had the fiche records of Cork Births so that may be a way around the main city GRO if that is the way you want to go.Their web site is: www.familia.org/services/eire/cork.html Collect as much info first before you go. This is the best website I have for Cork: http://homepage.eircom.net/~ridgway Hope this is of some help. Janet

Janet North London Borders I reckon that my great grandad/great grandma got married in 1859/1860 in Cork Ireland. There 1st child was born in 1860 in Cork would I be able to find their marriage if I went over to Ireland to have a look at the records office in Cork. Great Grandad was in the 80thFoot(Royal Irish Fusiliers) in India in 1857-1859(Indian Mutiny). Have already tried Family History in India Thats how I found he had been in Ireland but cannot find his family in the Griffith's Valuations. Do you know of any sites that I would be able to find any further info on my family please. Thanks Sue

you could also try irish records has links to other sites

I agree that it is very important to read about Irish history, and to visit parts of Ireland if possible. If you go to Bantry House you can learn a lot there. It is fascinating and makes one think, when seeing war memorials, in County Cork for instance, realising that they are of fighting between the Irish and the British! In certain parts of County Cork, there is still division between "us" and the Irish. The partition is still recent. Interestingly though, not many people seem to visit the Michael Collins heritage centre. Joy

I only started my family tree this year and my mum is Irish so i've concentrated mainly on my dads side. When we were over in Ireland last May we decided to visit the village where my mum's mum was originally from and find her families graves. We looked all round the cemetary but could find no graves of that name, it wasn't a very big cemetary so we couldn't have missed them. Then on the way out a man walked past with his dog, mum (she'll talk to anyone!) says 'hello, have you lived her long'. 'All my life' said the man who was about 70. She explained we were looking for the graves, 'Hang on' said the man 'i have the book in my house'. Goes into the house opposite and comes out with an old looking book, opens it up and there we all are in the middle of the cemetary looking through an 'ancient' book, find the deaths of both my great grandparents recorded. It had the date, name, age, plot number, cost of plot, even who dug the grave. He showed us where my great grandparents were buried but they didn't have a headstone so thats why we couldn't find it. The man said he knew the family very well and that they had moved to the village from a different village in a neighbouring county after being given their house by the land commission in the early 1900s. If he hadn't told us that we wouldn't have had a clue that they had lived somewhere else or where. So i think whats been said about oral tradition in Ireland is very important, the best way to trace your Irish history is to visit the places. Also as i mentioned my family moved counties after receiving a new house and farm from the land commission. I think this was fairly common in the west of ireland in the early 1900s, poor farmers would trade in their farms with poor quality land in exchange for better farms. A good deal for them but makes it harder for us to trace Paula

Twinkle Many people will hear what you are saying. As I said earlier much work has already been done by volunteers but Ireland has chosen to put their info into the Heritage Centres for which you have to pay, as you cannot research there yourself. Many people are working at getting some records on line but it is piecemeal. Ireland will work at the records in its own way, certainly not the English way!! English people MUST understand the Irish History. One of the many reasons why the Church is so "precious" about their records is because of the history, and to spell it out that means the Young Ireland Movement, Fenianism and the other organisations which still resonate in present times. I would urgently suggest you read up on the history. Many people fled from Ireland and emigrated all over the world during the Famine times, and like many people who went hungry and were evicted from their homes to sleep in ditches, many joined up to illicit organisations, and to this day, because of so much bitterness which divided families, the Church still protects. The areas that had the most rebellions and the most problems were Wexford 1798 and Cork, Kerry, Limerick and Tipperary during the 1840's onwards. Other counties may have suffered more with regard to the famine and evictions, but the uprisings were more in the counties named. The Irish Oral tradition of handing down records was very strong. It is weaker now and more challenging written material is being published all the time. But when in Ireland do as the Irish do! I haven't even mentioned the Cromwellian Period but all that history is also important! Please read up! Janet

The problem with joining all these Societies is that I have seven Irish ancesters from seven counties, and an eighth, unassigned lady who is probably from yet another county. Even if I went to Ireland, what am I supposed to do; stand in Tipperary and yell "ANYONE SEEN MY LOT?". There are three things that could be done, freely by volunteers, with Irish records: Put the BMD index online Put the 1901 and 1911 censuses online Name index the records instead of address indexing them I appreciate the difficulties arising from the partition in 1922 but it should not be an insurmountable problem. Nor should the Church be so precious about it all. I'm sure Ancestry would jump through hoops of fire to be allowed to use the census data. Until then, if you see a girl stalking through the Irish countryside screaming out names, give me a wave.

PS I have had a lot of help from the Heritage Centres in Galway. Joy

Rowson I am very familiar with these Heritage Centres and all I can say is that they like to accept your money, about £100 to answer a very basic question and that you need to supply them with as much info as you have on your family before they can help you. About 10 years ago a friend of mine in Ireland collected some info on my relatives on the back of an enquiry she made about her own family. It took nearly a year then to obtain the info. In 2002 a cousin in Tipperary put in for some info on the family, paid her fee of £200 for a report and in 2004 is still waiting for the results. They still have her £200. In the meantime I have got what we want by going on holidays at least once a year to obtain the info from the church registers. Unfortunately you cannot use the Heritage Centres like you can use our Record Offices here. You have to pay for the work to be done for you. When I know that these Heritage Centres were set up for free by the EEC to help Ireland put its records in order and the work was done voluntarily by students I get rather annoyed that the general public are not allowed access. It also looks as if some of these Heritage Centres are going bust, and there are question marks over both of the Tipperary Heritage Centres, which have been renamed at least once. Janet

I came across an interesting little bit of information recently whilst doing a local library look up for someone in America. I found that the parish records for some of our local Catholic Churches had small attachments to the marriage certificates. On investigation I found that if a young woman came to England from Ireland and wanted to marry here she had to get permission from the parish priest back home, particularly if she was under 21. This showed the name of the church and the originating parish of the person, along with the county. A priceless snippet of information when all other records merely showed the person as Originating "Ireland". I also agree with Janet that it is important to understand the culture of Ireland and its lovely people. We are frequent visitors to Ireland (at least three times a year) and through learning to dance a few sets, and becoming more involved with the local people you can certainly get lots of help and make many real friends. John

Julie, depending on the date, then it could have been Ireland and not Northern Ireland ie before the "split". There are certain surnames generally in certain areas of Ireland. I do appreciate the difficulty. We always used to think my great-grandmother came from Galway! My great-grandparents' first child was born in a certain year in England, and I had great-Granny's death certificate giving her age, so I wrote to a professional researcher in Ireland - you can find them by google searching - and asked if she could search for a marriage. Was surprised to find that they married in a Presbyterian Church in Turlough, County Mayo. You could try joining the Irish Family History Society, and ask questions there. Joy

Julie You must try to get your ancestors into a county at least, and in reality unless you have a townland you have a real battle on your hands, unless you have a really uncommon name you are looking for. Try all the English census and see if you can get hold of original census. I only discovered one the other day on the 1871 Census that gave me the actual townland, spelt wrongly of course but I recognised the name. No other census gave me that info. All I had previously was Fermoy County Cork and in 10 years I have been unable to find her. Now with the townland I have a better chance. In 1921 the Irish Free State was set up and Ireland was still within the Commonwealth, but the six North Eastern Counties of Ireland were excluded. In 1949 the Republic of Ireland came into being and left the Commonwealth. It came to be known casually as North and Southern Ireland. In 1922 there was a disastrous civil war in which many of the records which had been sent to Dublin for ironic safekeeping were burnt during the fighting. However many Catholic records and many country records were not sent to Dublin hence the reason that many areas still have many records going back. It really is a question of finding ot where your ancestors came from and going on holiday to Ireland, a very beautifulplace to go. Janet

Pat I have had no experience of Dublin because I have no ancestors from there though many went to live there of latter years. Mine are all from the country areas of Tipperary and then they all move to Cork City. Well having been back to the 1840's and 1850's of Tipp and all the unrest that was going on at that time in Tipp and Limerick and then the unrest of Cork City I do understand where the Irish history is coming from. My husbands people are from Wexford and as far as Irish people are concerned then just to mention the date 1798 is usually enough!! I am stuck at 1798 in Thurles but have learnt so much about the times from the local newspapers and I just wish that people would try to understand the Irish culture! There are lists of names all over the Tipp papers and I keep coming across the same names at different times for different things, some from my family. I was able to search the Thurles records for my ancestors as I did it through the help of a local B&B and was able to gain access from the PP Thanks for your support Janet