Genealogy Chat

Hello again Trudy. I came back on and saw that you were still struggling on this and had another look. I still can't find much of use on the 1871 or 1891 census which is very strange given that this family were defintely around in the Mile End/Whitechapel area for some time. If you haven't already seen this, it might be the marriage of Rose Butt Name: Butt, Rose Elizabeth Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1895 District: Bethnal Green County: Greater London London Middlesex Volume: 1c Page: 446 I guess the only way to crack this is to order some certificates (preferably those near census dates) and to see if you can't find them from the addresses on the certificates. Cheers, Louise

Thanks Louise, have found some of the references for some of their births, can't find them on 1871 or 1891, but have managed to track down two of the married daughters on 1901, so I suppose we're getting somewhere, but can't find anything on the one I want 'Edward Henry T' my ggrandfather. If anyone has any ideas at all I'm willing to try anything. Thanks. Trudy

Trudy, While I'm stuck on my family, I'm becoming addicted to this puzzle! Could this be your boy away at school in 1891? Name: Butt, Edward Age in 1891: 13 Relation: Inmate Gender: Male Where Born: London Civil parish: Hanwell Ecclesiastical parish: Hanwell Town: County: Middlesex Source information: RG12/1038 Registration district: Brentford Sub registration district: Acton ED, institution, or vessel: Central London District School Folio: 135 Page: 6 (click to see others on page) Also, have you found his birth yet and if so are there any clues in the details? Louise

Oh NO ........... Trudy they're still hiding. I thought they might have turned up while I was away. Well this is a real puzzle, but lets have another go !! Esta

Lets start again from 1881: Hope you don't mind if I put this on here to help .............. Albert Butt abt 1865 Stepney, Middlesex, England Son Hamlet Alice Butt abt 1866 Stepney, Middlesex, England Daughter Hamlet Edward Butt abt 1878 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Son Hamlet Florence Butt abt 1875 Stepney, Middlesex, England Daughter Hamlet Rose E. Butt abt 1871 Stepney, Middlesex, England Daughter Hamlet William Butt abt 1838 St Georges East, Middlesex, England Head Hamlet William H. Butt abt 1877 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Son Hamlet Esta

Trudy, One thing you haven't mentioned is his wife Matilda - do you know what her maiden name was and how old would she have been in 1871.?? Esta

Hi Esta - Matilda died in Dec 1880, her maiden name was Frost and she is shown as being 37 when she died. I have had a mail this morning from someone also tracing this line, and it appears that 'David Albert'and 'Albert' are one and the same, and that he was born before the others, illegitimately under the name of Frost. I've just switched on the PC this morning so - 'let the hunt begin!!!'. Trudy

Louise/Esta - Louise think you may well have found my Edward - thank you! I think, although I'll have to order the cert to make sure, that I have found William snrs death in Poplar Sept.1888 this would make Edward 9 or ten when he died, so might this be some sort of 'poor school' as he was a minor? Trudy

Hi Pamela, yes this is him, there was some confusion with his identity but he did marry Rose Lee Wood - thank you, Trudy

Do you know Matilda's birthplace??

Hi Tricia - think she was born Edmonton 1843 - ref Edmonton Vol 3, pg 117. Trudy

Edward Butt 1891....inmate Middx......... This might be the young offenders school...now called Feltham. I wonder if there was a young offenders school there then? or whatever they used to call such places! Gerri.

Hi Gerri, as I posted a little earlier, I am wondering whether this is in fact a poor school, because if you look at the page before on the census, it shows more inmates - all minors - and nurses, carers etc. I think I have found his fathers death in 1888, so he would have only been 9 or 10 when his father died, but I don't know where to look for info, I have put a thread on the board, but with no replies so far, but your suggestion might be another possibility, thanks. Trudy

Trudy... try looking here to see if there is a home for boys in Middx!... dont forget to remove ()....... http://www(.)hiddenlives(.)org.uk/homes/index(.)html I know it's scrapping the barrel but ya gotta try! havent you lol Good luck Gerri.

Thank Gerri, will do. Have looked at page on Census on Ancestry and it says 'Central London District School', but I can't find out how kids would have been chosen to go there, or whether in fact is was an institution set up under the Poor law. Trudy

Trudy, Google Central Distict London School and the third entry gives a wealth of inform and pictures. It was for the poor. Central London School District The Central London School District was formed in 1849 from the London Unions of City of London, East London and St Saviour, with West London and St Martin's in the Field joining a little later. Initially, the School District's Board of Management acquired an privately owned pauper school building in Norwood run by Mr Aubin. After the making of alterations costing about £17,000, the school could accommodate 800 children. Mr Aubin was kept on as the school's superintendent, with his wife as matron, until his sudden death in November, 1860 In 1854, the school managers debated both extending the existing school, or transferring it to a larger site elsewhere. They eventually decided on the latter course and a 136-acre site was purchased at Hanwell for £13,000. The new buildings, designed by the partnership of Tress and Chambers, were erected between 1856 and 1861 at a cost of £45,000. The Hanwell Schools, which also became known as the "Cuckoo" Schools (after an old name for the area), received their first admissions at the end of 1856. A total of 1,200 children could be accommodated on the site. Loads more....... Tricia

Hi Trudy, when working with the censuses you may need to try "looks like" surnames, where a transcriber who was confronted with an unusual surname has entered a surname that is more frequent and looks like the real one. For example, I have found Garnell transcribed as Garnett in 1871 and 1891 and Wills transcribed s Mills in 1881

This is a great website with lots of info about the school where Edward was in 1891. I didn't realise when I found this yesterday but it's quite near where I live and I've been past the site loads of times! http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/CentralLondonSD/CentralLondonSD*.shtml (remove *) It's a famous place as Charlie Chaplin was an inmate there as well. Louise

Thank you everyone, it certainly gives food for thought, I have seen the pages that most of you have recommended, but I can't find a list of inmates and the reasons they were taken in anywhere to confirm that this is indeed 'my' Edward. Any ideas gratefully received. Trudy

Hi again, don't know if this will shed any light but have found Matilda's parents - Henry Frost and Patty Rayner who married at St Olave Hart Street, London on 1st Feb 1820, but haven't managed to find them on any census yet. Trudy