Genealogy Chat

Help. Calling our loverly Londoner experts. If someone claimed to be born within the sound of Bow bell and therefore be a "real Londoner, which disticts, parishes, areas could they have been born in say around 1889, 1890 Many thanks JA

St Mary le Bow is in Cheapside, City of London. To hear the bells you would be in the City or in the western parts of Tower Hamlets. Ratcliffe, Shadwell, Aldgate, Wapping parts of Whitechapel, Shoreditch, St Lukes. depending which way the wind is blowing. Of course those on the south bank of the Thames could probably hear the bell, but they could never lay claims to being Cockney, being spawn of the Devil and hardly human at all. Cockney is in no way connected to Mockney which is an accent affected by media erks who want to be a 'celebrity' dave

You are supposed to live within the sound of the bells but in fact people think of themselves as cockneys over a much wider area, even to the south of the river in Bermondsey/Rotherhithe (southeast London). I cannot believe you said that David! And you with a Welsh name, if ever I heard one! I bet you were Daffyd originally! lol. My family were river rats/dockers/bargebuilders/lightermen on both sides of the river (when yours were probably farming sheep) and certainly most people think of that as being cockney!!!!

first some general knowledge: The church of St. Mary-le-Bow (Bow Church), Cheapside, London, England. The church is located in mid-London, and tradition says that only one who is born within sound of the Bow Bells is a true Londoner, or Cockney. According to legend the Bow Bells called Dick Whittington (see Whittington, Richard) back to London. The fine steeple, which is over 222 ft (68 m) high, was constructed by Christopher Wren when he rebuilt the church after the great fire of 1666; the crypt of the original Norman church, with the arches (bows) for which the church is named, still stands. From: http://www.bartleby(.)com/65/bo/BowBells.html The problem with that legend, is that the question whether you can hear Bow Bells depends also on the wind direction and wind strength, how well sound carries on that day etc. But go to this page: http://www.steeljam.dircon(.)co.uk/cockney.htm Not only is there a full discussion on this subject, they even include a map ! So if the wind was in the right direction that night, then I (born in Walthamstowe) am also a cockney ! ps. it's not just about cockneys, lots of other london info. on the site: http://www.steeljam.dircon(.)co.uk/index.htm

this was asked on the rootsweb London mailing list - I remember saving the answer. Shall try to look for it at home later. I know my father was, and he was born in Lambeth. Joy

lol Heather. All those born south of the water, or should that be 'sarf of the wa'er' with their lardy da ways pretending to be Londoners. No sheep in my family tree, couple of old goats though :-) dave.

Hi My Mum and Dad both said they were cockneys, being born in Bethnal Green and Stepney. Dad used to talk of growing up in the 1920s and playing football matches south of the river. They used to dash back through the tunnel (not sure which one) as soon as the match was finished because bad things would happen if they stayed on "the wrong side of the river" for too long. He always said that people north and south of the river did not mix unless they really had to. Marion

Thats because those from over the water always end a sentence with a question, don't they ? Don't trust them, do we ? oh look its contagious. dave

So were we lar de dar or hard b******** then? Wasnt we? I love my dad, he is 91 this year bless. I remember someone saying to him once "Course, yor lot was Jews, wasnt they?" "No, WE werent" said Dad "my cousins on the ovver side of the river was!.

And Southwark just across the Thames. It was not Bow Bells, East London as most people think.

Fanks Pat. Thats us lot sorted, then aint it?

Hi Marion, probably Rotherhithe Tunnel.

my nan always classed herself as a cockney she was born in newcross. my gramp was born in st george hanover square somehow,reading your replies,i think they were telling porkies lol although they did have a strong london accent. susie

St Geroge Hanover Square is in Westminster. New Cross just sarf of the river. So no, they werent telling fibs, were they?

heather take back wat i said lol sorry nan,sorry gramp:( i dont know one end of london to the other,being a mere bucks gal lol.thanks for putting me straight lol susie

The acid test - Did they ever salivate over the thought of pie, mash and liquor?

I am Heather...And don't forget the hot eels...MMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

Oh no, never liked the eels. I think I was put off when they used to sell them live outside pubs, cut their heads off and they would still wriggle around. The man used to say if you listen you can hear them scream. Nope, definitely no eels for me. When my eldest boy (24 - works in media, born well away from the river!) was working in London he lived on Surrey Quays. I couldnt find a pie shop there but when we went to The Cutty Sark to get a boat trip I remembered there used to be one round the corner in Greenwich and dragged him there. Oh, what a let down, tablecloths, lots of Americans, candles and wine being served with pie and mash. Felt choked, absolutely choked.

I was brought up on Pie and Mash in the early sixties. I still go to one in Croydon when I visit my parents. Nothing fancy there, help yourself cutlery, big bottles of vinigar (hot or plain) on the SHARED bench tables......LOVE IT!!!!! But not as good as the one in the Wandsworth Road.....Took my ex husband (Public School twit) there once and he was horrified :)

My eldest boy found it rather amusing but my youngest, 19 in a few months, I dragged into the Woolwich one when he was 15 and we went down to see Woolwich Arsenal museum. Absolutely drained the colour from his face! Still had the marble topped tables - but the iron work all painted bright orange or yellow and the serving girls looking quite plain! Shared benches, the old lady to our left having a coughing fit. The couple to our right talking about their pending court case. Son (boarding school product) brushed the bench before he sat down! and disdainfully turned down "same for you luv?" from the serving lady when I order mine! He sat there cringed up with a painful expression just drinking a coke, after wiping the glass with a tissue!! And nearly died when I offered him to the old lady if she wanted the kiss of life! Dont know how to live kids nowdays! I loved it, My dads neighbours say that I and my sister "talk posh now". In our( now in the sticks) home towns people say "you are real cockneys arent you" But when I get amongst "my people" down there I find my accent going 150 miles sarf again and the banter you can get away with down there that would have people calling men in white coats for you up here or just ignoring you as a care in the community job! Do you find that too?