Genealogy Chat

I think I will send for her death cert out of curiousity! I wasn't going to with her not being my direct line but this has got me even more intrigued now! Does anyone know anything about Bastardy Bonds and how to see whether Joseph was paying any money for these children? If he IS their father, there's 14 years between the first one being born and J & E actually getting married so some sort of financial arrangement might have been in place!

Oh, Lou...maybe you got a murderer in the family....how exiting...this is one thread I am not going to miss looking up regularly...look froward to the next episode. LOL Anne

Anne/Richard Wonder if you both make a valid point! I did say to Richard the other day that he didn't spend much time grieving for poor Sarah before installing Esther in the house and they all lived in the same tiny village. Wonder if the actual baptism records would give me any more info? Surely in a place that small, everyone would have had an idea what was going on and I've seen baptism records where the vcar had no qualms about stating who the father was regardless of whether it wsa common knowledge or not. I've been checking out trade directories as well and Joseph and Esther's father George both had Tailor's shops on the same street so chances are the families knew each other long before Joseph and Esther married. Now it's making me wonder how poor Sarah died - was she pushed!!! Lou

Richard...I don't think any of them wasted much time in those days...found out my Grandmother was a bit of a trollop too...mind you...she must have had a good time doing it!!! lol Anne.

Well Anne, that thought crossed my mind too - after all, he didn't waste much time getting officially hitched to Esther once poor old Sarah was out of the picture, now did he??

Hi Lou... This has brightened my day today...had a good laugh at the problem ( not nastily I might add) that you have... Just a thought that crossed my mind... Joseph couldn't have been popping round to the 2 houses could he!!! lol Seriously though...hope you clear this up. Anne

Hi Richard I probably am being a bit harsh on poor Esther so I'll change her to being a scandalous woman! I was just a bit gobsmacked to find that THREE of them were hers out of wedlock, I was expecting one of them to belong to her and the rest to Joseph and Sarah! I'm not sure I'll ever be able to establish their paternity though although I imagine there were few candidates in a village that small! Still got bits of snow here but it's vanishing fast. Lou

Congratulations Lou, I've been following you around Derby while you have been looking for this family. As I had a Thomas and Mary with an extra 'wife' Mary and his son John with two wives named Sarah.. All you have to do now is find out the father of James, William and Sarah. Who could be living a couple of doors away !!!! I hope it isn't my Thomas or John. They both had loads of Kids. Good Luck Kay

Well done Lou, congratulations! 'filthy, dirty little trollop' is being a bit harsh on poor old Esther though, don't you think? :o) Richard (PS it's raining here in Perth today - 1st rain for months!)

Well, I finally have it worked out....at last! The 10 year old James in 1841 and Joseph are Joseph's children from his marriage to Sarah Robey. The older James, William and Sarah are Esther's illegitimate children, the scandalous woman!!! She had them all baptised at different churches just to confuse me as well! I imagine in a village that only had about 100 people living in it in the 1830's, she must have caused a huge scandal and how many women would have been giving their husbands/sons the 3rd degree about who was responsible. Wish I could have been there!!! Lou

Richard YES...I used to love Monty Python! My other half has also just helpfully chipped in with 'Wish my bloody 1st wife was as easy to get rid of'!!! Lou

Mmmm... anyone else remember the Australian 'Bruces' sketch from Monty Python? Everyone was called Bruce, to 'avoid confusion'!! If you want to refresh your memory (as well as get some light relief from those Josephs & James) , it's online at: http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/bruces.htm

Richard That's brilliant and ties it all up quite neatly with regards to the First Wives Club. Now onto their brothers and sisters.....! Lou

Lou I wouldn't tell you off LOL! This looks like a possibility for the other Joseph's wife's death: Deaths Sep 1839 Smithard Mary Burton on Trent 17 18 Burton on Trent? Does that sound right? 'Mainly in Staffordshire, but included parts of Derbyshire' according to Genuki. You've got your hands full on this one I think, two Joseph Smithard's both tailors both widowed at around the same time! And the kids all born before civil registration too!! Sounds like one for the 13 commandments thread!! Richard

Richard Will you stop telling me off...I only found the other Joseph on Tuesday night but yes he was a Tailor as well, so must be related. Funnily enough, Esther's father is a Tailor as well so the families are possibly business connected as well as by marriage! However, I can't find any of my Joseph and Esther's children under either Smitherd or Bradbury on BVRI or IGI with parents that match BUT the other Joseph's daughters come up (right area, right time) with parents Joseph and Mary. So it looks like Joseph married Sarah...my Joseph that is. WHY do these people recycle their names constantly! Hadn't seen the death so thank you very much, ties that one up although he didn't waste much time keeping the other side of the bed warm, did he???? Will now do some digging into Joseph and Esther's siblings, see whether any of the children with them could be nieces and nephews as suggested! Lou

Maybe the other Joseph is a cousin, which would lend support to the theory that one of the Jameses with your Joseph in 1841 is a nephew (or cousin once removed) rather than a son?

Lou! I suppose that you've seen this on FreeBMD??? Deaths Jun 1839 SMITHARD Sarah Derby 19 405

Ah! You didn't tell us about the other Joseph Smitherd!! But was he also a tailor (as was yours, as was the one who married Sarah apparently?)

Hi Richard Definitely a possibility BUT round the corner from Joseph and Esther on the 1841 census is Joseph Smitherd Widower with 2 daughters aged 17 and 15! So don't want to just assume that my Joseph married Sarah, the other Joseph may have been married to Sarah. Does that make sense!!! Lou

Hi Lou! But haven't you already located his 1st marriage... i.e. to Sarah Robey in 1825? That ties in with eldest son James being 14 in 1841? Seems more than a possibility! Richard