Genealogy Chat

Wow! Thanks guys. So they're not even Bibb's after all so problem solved. One down, 148 to go (unless Rebs keeps sending me anymore pieces to the puzzle!) The Sarah Ann Bibb who died in Marylebone in 1894 IS mine, incidentally, my ggggrandmother who's cause of death was 'Found dead in house'. Bless! Appreciate all your help on this one, peeps, I'll come and do your housework when I've finished mine!!!! Rebs, you get a large drink when I get there! If only my missing BIBB 4xgrandparents were as easily solved! Lou

Theres a german surname,or german origin.......... SIFERAL-

Joseph and Sarah ARE on the 1861 census as Bebb and not Bibb. Sorry, didn't realise David had already found this. Kath. x

Deaths =Sarah Ann Bebb 45 camberwell sep 1866 that fits nicely

Ah............ Now were talking........... That will explain lack of records for anyone,well doneDavid Thought something was strange Too many missing links

And this his marriage. Hammond sounds like a Norfolk kind of surname. Name Year Quarter Record Type District County Bebb, Joseph 1849 September Marriages St James Westminster London Middlesex Burnege, Jane 1849 September Marriages St James Westminster London Middlesex Davies, Emma 1849 September Marriages St James Westminster London Middlesex Edwards, Charles 1849 September Marriages St James Westminster London Middlesex Hammond, Sarah Ann 1849 September Marriages St James Westminster London Middlesex Hepton, James 1849 September Marriages St James Westminster London Middlesex Nes, Mary 1849 September Marriages St James Westminster London Middlesex Kate.

David - well done! We've all been missing the obvious, haven't we? Trying to read all the other bits and not even looking at the surname. This must be Joseph senior's death: Name: BEBB, Joseph Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 76 Quarter: March Year: 1866 District: Kingston County: Middlesex Surrey Volume: 2a Page: 171 (click to see others on page) Kate.

The other problem is I think the name is BEBB not BIBB. The enumerator hasn't dotted the i. Sarah's birthplace looks like Norfolk, Long Stratton In 1861 Joseph Bebb head marr 70 attorney at law born Buttisham Surrey and wife Sarah A Bebb 39 born Elsing Norfolk were living in Malham Rd East Moulsey, Surrey. No sign of Joseph junior though.

The Sarah Ann Bibb who died in 1894 is probably the one in Marylebone in 1891 and according to the transcription she was born there too... just looking at the image.... yes, widow, age 68, born London Marylebone. Kate.

No, sorry, just found the christening for that Steptoe one at Weybridge in 1856 and his middle name was Burns anyway. Back to the drawing board! Kate.

Only thing to grasp on so far.................. DEATHS: SARAH ANN BIBB 76 Marylebone 1a 366 June 1894 Now, Before you say,eh,up,the age is 4 years out,she was 29 in 1851,she should be 72,think about this.........theyre are no other deaths that match her name as close as this 1851-1911,and also no recorded remariages of a sarah bibb,1851- 1884. Therefore she lied about her age originally,to get married,ie she was 16/17 as opposed to 21>>>>marriage around 1843,which fits in with the birth of the boy. So she lied about her age for a start. How many other porkies?

Could this possible be him???? Name: Steptoe, Joseph James B[iu][nr]ns Record Type: Deaths Quarter: December Year: 1857 District: Strand County: London Middlesex Volume: 1b Page: 279 (click to see others on page) Kate.

I think it might be Sisscal, with the first of the double s being written the old way looking more like a modern f. On the next page Peter Saunders 74 was a retired truss maker where truss looks like trufs. But I can't find any Sisscals either!

interesting..................... Ancestry= no bibbs born 1843-1845 as joseph Free bmd= no bibbs born 1843-1845 as joseph Cant find any reference to the father as a death ,never mind marriage or birth from that location. Looked up 1837 site all surname births bibb or beginning sif,nothing asa joseph for either 1843-1845. so............... looks like this little chappie wasnt born with this name,whatever it is. being a lawyer,perhaps he informally adopted the child ,having money....wanted a son and heir,then found himself a lady to do the mothering bit. The natural mother could have died in childbirth,or fallen on desperate times,been raped,the lawyer felt pity,blah blah.....

My guesses were Seferal and Siferal, but couldn't find any occurrences of either anywhere. If you can get anybody to look up the baptism records of St. Ann(e)'s Soho, perhaps they could find his baptism? Anyway, my kids are desperate to get on the computer so I'll have to take a break for now. Kate.

Ive enhanced the image in various ways using sharpen and soften after magnifying,then reducing........... It must be a surname relating to the boys natural mother who is probably foreign? One of the following: Sifreal Safrael (incidental dot) Sifaeal Sofaeal Safaeal definitely only 7 letters.......off to ancestry for a lookl

Lou - not got anywhere with Joseph Jr's 'surname' or whatever yet, but Sarah's birthplace is definitely Norfolk, Long Stratton. I'll keep looking at Joseph Jr. to see if I get any ideas! Kate.

David in Notting Hill They're at HO107 1485 pg 105, first ones on the page! I did wonder whether he was born to Joseph & Sarah Ann before their marriage and registered in her surname but it was being made clear that he is Joseph's child on the census form. I can't find the family in 61 but its psosible that Joseph Snr was deceased by then and Sarah could possibly have remarried given that she wouldn't have been 40 by that point! It was suggested to be last night that the younger Joseph could be a grandson but I'd put money on it saying Natural Son as the relationship. There's definitely a world between Bibb and Natural Son which is possibly his surname. Best I can decipher it as is Sifilear. I can't find a marriage for Joseph and Sarah or a birth for Joseph under the surname Bibb at the moment Lou

The term relationship on census returns refers to the head of the household NOT the mother unless she is the head. Also the head was responsible for completing the form and handing it over to the enumerator - difficult if he couldn't write. I would say that the child was the father's but perhaps not the mother's, however he may have been born before a marriage of the stated parents or to a previous marriage. It is being made clear that the child is the father's son. good hunting Dave

Natural son is a euphemism for illegitimate. I was quite surprised to find my widowed gt gt grandfather in Gloucestershire with his grown-up son and two daughters and a baby, described as 'love child' and born in Cirencester Union! nell