Genealogy Chat

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From the 1851 census living Westminster Joseph Bibb HEAD 62 Attorney at Law b. Surrey, Battersea Sarah A Bibb WIFE 29 birthplace unreadable Joseph J Bibb NATL SON 7 Scholar b. Middlesex St Annes Soho There's also something written between the younger Joseph's surname and the relationship that I can't make out either. Natural son as the relationship to the head of the house? Any idea why the younger Joseph would be described as this on a census? Never seen a relationship described like that before and it has me intrigued! Thanks Lou

Maybe the head of the household was just bragging, seeing the difference in age of him and his wife, lol Seriously though, I have no idea why. Kath. x

Hmm...the rather large age gap hadn't escaped my notice either!

Perhaps the boy was a bit of a brat, and Sarah filled in the Census form.... Olde Crone

It suggests to me that he might have been 'illegitimate'? Perhaps born before the marriage to Sarah? Kate.

That would make sense Kate. Didn't want people thinking he was just a stepson. Cat - do you know the wife's maiden name? Perhaps you could try to find the son's birth reference (if he was registered). Kath. x

At the moment I don't know anything about them BUT that would actually make sense if this indecipherable word after the BIBB in younger Joseph's name was actually his surname. I'm not even sure whether these are actually 'mine' but I'm determined to investigate them!

I thought it meant illegitimate. Heather

Yes, because the children's surnames are usually given as 'do' rather than in full, aren't they? But if he actually had a different surname it would have to be written in. Is there any way you can scan the image in and send it to some of us to look at or post it up on a website? Kate.

I have it scanned in already. If anyone would like to take a look and see what they think, let me know!

Giz a butchers then ! At first glance at your info,I thought he was called that because of his age-my great grandgfather fathered his last child,at the age of 62,and his wife was 37.it is quite unusual and perhaps explains the extra effort made by the enumerator.

Hi peeps Getting very stressed now cos Email's is playing up tonight and wont let me attach anything to my messages. Son the pooter whizz is out (typical!) so will send it over the weekend if you'd all be good enough to have a look and see what your thoughts are! Lou

What's the reference and folio number?

Do they appear on any Cenus after 1861? June xx

Natural son is a euphemism for illegitimate. I was quite surprised to find my widowed gt gt grandfather in Gloucestershire with his grown-up son and two daughters and a baby, described as 'love child' and born in Cirencester Union! nell

The term relationship on census returns refers to the head of the household NOT the mother unless she is the head. Also the head was responsible for completing the form and handing it over to the enumerator - difficult if he couldn't write. I would say that the child was the father's but perhaps not the mother's, however he may have been born before a marriage of the stated parents or to a previous marriage. It is being made clear that the child is the father's son. good hunting Dave

David in Notting Hill They're at HO107 1485 pg 105, first ones on the page! I did wonder whether he was born to Joseph & Sarah Ann before their marriage and registered in her surname but it was being made clear that he is Joseph's child on the census form. I can't find the family in 61 but its psosible that Joseph Snr was deceased by then and Sarah could possibly have remarried given that she wouldn't have been 40 by that point! It was suggested to be last night that the younger Joseph could be a grandson but I'd put money on it saying Natural Son as the relationship. There's definitely a world between Bibb and Natural Son which is possibly his surname. Best I can decipher it as is Sifilear. I can't find a marriage for Joseph and Sarah or a birth for Joseph under the surname Bibb at the moment Lou

Lou - not got anywhere with Joseph Jr's 'surname' or whatever yet, but Sarah's birthplace is definitely Norfolk, Long Stratton. I'll keep looking at Joseph Jr. to see if I get any ideas! Kate.

Ive enhanced the image in various ways using sharpen and soften after magnifying,then reducing........... It must be a surname relating to the boys natural mother who is probably foreign? One of the following: Sifreal Safrael (incidental dot) Sifaeal Sofaeal Safaeal definitely only 7 letters.......off to ancestry for a lookl