Genealogy Chat

Is it true that is one is recorded as a dress maker in the occupation section of a census form, that chances are that they are actually a 'Professional Lady'? Paul.

I would doubt it - someone had to make the dresses after all.

No- dont know where you got that from...my mother and great-grandmother were dressmakers and certainly were not prostitutes.

I've always assumed that the operative word was a 'charwoman', especially is she's been widowed young and supporting a large family. Statisically, a 'Professional Woman' as you put it could be from just about any profession. I've got a 'barmaid' in my tree who had at least one illegitmate child and must have put it about a bit, but I don't think she was a prostitute.

Agree with Jess.......Some of my maiden ladies will be turning in their graves at the mere suggestion!! If you saw my 2xg-grandmother's photo, you would not be asking!! A ''working girl'' who looked like her would be broke!! lol Merry

Oops! Sorry if I offended you. Someone told me this thats all!

Most dress makers were likely to be seamstruses / tailours and would have made clothes for their family and some to sell to others. I would not be suppried if some (a small handfull) were ladies of pleasure / proffessional ladies or the like but on the whole they were what they said they were. I wouldn't mind betting that half the single women in the community were dress makers or similer as they could stay at home and saw while the dinner was cooking.

It has certainly always been suggested that dressmaker may be a polite cloak for ladies of the night. The examples chosen tended to be in streets that had never seen a clothes shop, where a large number of seamstresses dwelt under one roof. I don't think that my dressmaker ancestors, living at home with their parents, were likely to be living double lives.... but the more I learn, the less I realise I know.

A Charwoman Cleaned for others. jess

I've heard / read the same as Paul. This isn't to say that there were genuine Dressmakers ! (Quote for 1901 census)'Dressmaker - the occupation of 'dressmaker' was commonly given by prostitutes !! as well as bona-fide dressmakers. Unmarried women with children are sometimes listed as Widows, with Husband Lost at Sea ! It pops up several times in you googles ' dressmaker Prostitutes census !

Weren't 'ladies of the night' called happy girls or gay girls or something like that, i read it some were but the old grey matters failing fast. Iam sure the expert on here answered a question about it once. Gill

Chances are that most of them WERE actually dress makers, but if you search a census form, how many dressmakers do you need in one town????

It would be extremely rare for a prostitute to put down their true occupation (or a euphemism) on a census return, for all sorts of reasons. Most women's jobs, and especially that of seamstress, were not only very hard work, but extremely ill-paid. A good many of them would have been forced to rely on prostitution in the lean times, simply to make ends meet. In those circumstances, they'd just give the day job to the enumerator.

I've also read a similar thing about women Lodging House Keepers actually being Brothel Keepers, especially if all their 'lodgers' seem to be young girls! (Guess what one of my 3 x gt grandmother was listed as on the 1861 census). Carolyn

I had an ancestor who, after having several children with her respectable solicitor husband disappeared off the censuses. Her husband set up home with another woman and had several more children with her, but did not marry her although she took his name. I eventually found the younger of his first lot of children in a workhouse, and his poor wife living with several ladies of varying ages, all of whom gave their occupation as 'dressmaker'. Abandoned wives had to make a living somehow after all... Liz x

It's very easy to be suspicious .......................... I have two sisters - agri labs daughters, both remained unmarried and by their 40's they are under the same roof and 'living on own means'. Where have their 'own means' come from??? Doing what, exactly...................?????!!!! Bev x

I only subscribe to the charwoman theory because I've been reading far too much about Jack the Ripper, and those victims of his that were part-time casual prostitutes invariably did a bit of part-time charring, cleaning or 'hawking' as well. Whatever it took to make ends meet I suppose. Poverty was widespread, and I read a book in the local Record Office that claimed 1 in 3 police arrests in 1860's Manchester were of women, and 1 in 12 of all arrests were for prostitution - and quite a high percentage could read and write - the true figures are probably much higher than that. I wouldn't read too much into a woman's occupation. It's all guess-work. A small part of me hopes I'll find a female relative in the Victorian police archives complete with a mugshot, just so I can get a picture of someone back then to look at, even if it is somewhat unflattering! I can't believe I want to find a famous criminal in my family - I must be going crazy! Michael

Michael makes a good point - probably most of the ''ladies'' who were prostitutes did other work as well, so which one would you put on the census?? Prostitute or charwoman? (you do a bit of cleaning in the mornings)......Prostitute or dressmaker? (you do a bit of sewing between clients)....etc etc Merry

Most dress makers - were.................................................... dressmakers!!! and char women - cleaners who'd pay to sleep with a 70 year old cleaner!!!!!! Some prossies might have called themselves dressmaker,maid, shop asst but most would have really been the worker they purported to be. Just a thought Prostitutes etc today don't put down prostitute, robber, rent boy or drug dealer though!!! They'll just be unemployed on the census!!!

My mother was a professional, ' apprenticeship time-served' couture dressmaker. She may have been a bit of a lass in her time and liked the gentlemen, but was definitely never a 'working girl'.