Genealogy Chat

I am helping someone with a marriage in 1926, he has the church record for the marriage, but the marriage is not on 1837 and the registry office have no record of it, has anyone come across this before??????

I am very curious about this - can you give what details you have and I will have a look? Dea

Thanks Dea, Albert Edward Whyte married Marie May Smith at St. Edward Church, Selly Oak, Birmingham in 1926 (forgot to ask him which month). His father was also Albert Edward Whyte and her mother was Marie May Sullivan. 1837 has been well searched and Birmingham Records Office cant find it either. Georgina.

Hate to ask this, but is he sure he has the right date? Kate.

Yes Kate he has a photocopy of the church register. Georgina.

It sounds weird, but I don't really see why you are trying to find it in the indexes if you already have a copy of the certificate? Kate.

Kate he hasn't got a marriage certificate only a copy from the parish record's that the church gave him. He wants to know if their marriage was legal. Georgina.

This probably won't help, but how come it has her mother's name rather than her father's? What does it give for the bride and groom's marital statuses? (I am just wondering if Marie May jr was born Sullivan, had already married a Smith and was still married to him? Or am I completely wrong here?) Does it give their ages? Kate.

Why not give the local records office (not register office) a call, and see if they hold the parish records for that church and that period? If they do, you could look for the entry yourself in the register, or they might be able to do this for you. That way, you could at least confirm that the marriage was recorded at that church and in that year. If it was, then look at the adjacent marriages in the register too, and see if they are listed on the GRO index. It's always possible that the records for that church and time were overlooked by the local registry office. Richard

Probably being very naive, but that name is ripe for mispelling isnt it. I know we all think that official records are perfect but Ive found my gran as Cheel instead of Cheal on her marriage cert and my grandad as Dickson instead of Dixon. Both entered as such on 1837.

Have looked everywhere - Can't find anything. What does the Church record actually say - Is it a record of their ACTUAL marriage, or is it a notice of banns etc. Perhaps the wedding was cancelled before it took place?? Dea

Sorry all for not getting back to you sooner. Thanks for your advice. I have telephoned the chap I am helping and he has been searching everywhere for this marriage, he even went to Birmingham Central Library and the Head Archivist (excuse spelling) said maybe the person who performed the marriage wasn't legal to do so and the marriage wasn't recognised by law. We have searched for mistranscriptions in the surname White/Whyte but still nothing. The only info we have on the brides mother is that she came from Cavan, Ireland. Georgina.

The register office sent copies to the GRO, so if the register office doesn't have it then that explains why it won't be on 1837online.

Georgina As you have a copy of the Church entry then you must know what Church this marriage took place in. Try the Hugh Wallis Site, to see if that Church Register has been transcribed by the LDS. If not, then try the local County Records Office, to see if they have the register for that Church.(Might be too recent though) If you can find the Church Register, then you can see if ANY marriages were reported to the GRO. I think this is a bit odd though - why would anyone choose to marry in a Church which did not have the right to marry couples? Was it a very strange Non-conformist Church? Olde Crone

Is it possible that the marriage was annulled because it was not legal for whatever reason, but either it was 'legal' in the eyes of the church so they kept it in their records, or they just didn't expunge it from their records when they should have? According to a thread a few weeks ago, if a marriage was found to be unlawful it would be more or less wiped from the records, so that you wouldn't be able to get a copy of the certificate. What the reason would be for it to be annulled, I can't really say without lots more information! Kate.

could this marriage have taken place in a catholic church and somehow they overlooked having a Registrar present. I know when we married we had to arrange for a Registrar from the local Registry Office to be present and it was he who gave us the marriage cert.

Another thing that I was thinking about at the big St Mary's Church in Nottingham all the registers were completed like a production line before the ceremonies took place. Could it be that they forgot to cross it out? Are you sure that this couple actually married. Did they have any children? Pippa

Thank you all for your replies, It was a catholic church so Grace's suggestion is very interesting. The couple went on to have children and I dont think they were even aware of their marriage not being registered at the GRO. It is only since the grandchildren started doing the family history that it has come to light. Many thanks Georgina.

Sure the cert has the right details on it - if its handwritten, perhaps 1926 has been misrecorded or misread? nell

What details do you have on the children - perhaps we could work backwards from one of them? Dea