Genealogy Chat

Thanks to all who are trying to help in finding Samuel after 1921 and trying to find date of death. Will be trying some of the tips I've been given - determined not to let this beat me

No because he didn't use Young after this I think his Mother Florence just used it to register his birth, his naval record is just in the name Westwood. I don't think I'll ever know what happened to him unless ancestry do have the full bmd some time soon which would then be a big help.

So he could be registered under Young or Westwood then?

Have checked this and it appears that he wasn't married to her even though she used his name when registering the birth of their son, when she did marry in 1920 she married under her original name which was Welton. Have even looked for a marriage of Samuel Westwood to Ethel May Welton just to be sure and it doesn't exist. Ethel May it seems has left a trail of lies behind her as nothing she told the family now seems to be true hence our search of Samuel. I even started searching for Samuels sister Nellie Westwood to look for clues but she married a Brown which makes it even harder.

Joanne You say his 'wife' remarried in 1920, if you obtain that marriage certificate it will tell you whether she was a widow or unmarried at the time, which would be a huge clue (if she was widowed) as to when he died! Joan

Samuels parents were Samuel Westwood born 1872 Florence Young born 1872, Samuel was born in 1892 and his birth name Samuel Young Westwood as his parents weren't married until after his birth. Samuel went into the navy in 1910 and left in 1921 stating demobed I think the writing is pretty poor. Whe he joined it's stated 5 & 7 years. The death reg given for Samuel in 1988 isn't mine more's the pity I just wish it was!!

GRO indexes are available to view free at various libraries and archives, including Kew. If you keep a record of which quarters/years you have checked, then you could just do a few each time you visit such a place. It is a slog. I once went through 144 of the big book indexes at the Family Records Centre before I located a marriage and my arms ached for days! nell

A possibility? - Name: Samuel Thomas Westwood Death Year: [1988] Age: 91 Birth Date: 9 Apr 1897 Death Registration Month/Year: Jun 1988 Registration District: Wolverhampton Inferred County: West Midlands Inferred Country: England The only one I could find that would come close! It took me so long to find him that you'd posted his birth date by the time I got back (or did I just miss it earlier I wonder). Still, if he lived as long as THIS Samual Westwood..... When I was looking for the death of my grandfather I started (using microfische) with the quarter his daughter married (Dec 1912) and by the time I got to the 1930s, thought I must have missed him - but found him in the Jan quarter of 1935. And my elation was all the more-so since I felt I had earned him as it were!! Victoria

Joanne. I realise this does not find the death record. Was it 5 and 7 in the reserve....or 7 & 5 in the reserve? Your time started on your 18th birthday if you joined before 18. Either way the war interfered with his 'regular' service that is probably why his discharge date is 'funny'. Could I just query, his parents you say were Samuel and Florence Young. Did you mean Samuel Westwood and Florence Young? On another point, had he died in service, the cause of discharge would be given as 'D.D.' in naval language 'discharged deceased'. This is what is on my father's Service Certificate. Needless to say mine says 'Pensioned'!! Ray

Ray Your'e right he did sign for 5 & 7 in 1910 but that would have taken him to 1922 !! and he left or according to his records in 1921!! does that make any sense

Cannot help re Death but are you aware that their are wonderful Pictures of most of HM Navy ships on the internet? He served on HMS Venerable. Use Google, search 'HMS Venerable' select Images and you will find pictures. Often these pics include crew, and, if you are lucky, memories of ex crew members. Try and get a good picture for each ship he served on. (You may already have done this)

Joanne. RFR means in naval parlance...Royal Fleet Reserve. As stated, his time in the Royal Navy was up, and he was on the Reserve. People used to sign on for say '7 and 5'...which meant seven years in the RN and five years in the Reserve. There were variations, like '9 & 3' , '9 &5'. Hope you have luck with your searching.

Its a good place to start - but you either have to do it yourself or get someone else - they won't do a search for you. A general search costs £18. If you aren't handy for the offices, it might pay to give them a ring and see if there are any professional researchers they can reccommend. 023 9282 9041 Whatever you do, its going to be a slog, but that makes it all the sweeter when you find it, as you will. You could look at www(.)portsmouth(.)gov(.)uk/living/2629(.)html and try ringing all the cemetaries - the numbers are all listed. Ian

Yep it could be RFA! Don't know how much help that is? and could also explain why in the later years he was based on Victory 2 which is Nelson 's ship that is in Portsmouth harbour but still had a full crew - they must have been all reserves. Perhaps looking in the protsmouth area my help as he my not have come back to Sheffield after all

Could it be RFA? Roylal Fleet Auxillary? That would explain how he was discharged from the Regular Navy and then later from the reserve. Ian

No it just ends showing the date he came off his last posting of 9/6/21 and it looks like it says demobed, but that isn't the first time it says demobed it say it in 1919 when he joined what looks lke RFR?

Was there a discharge address on his navy file? Ian

The info I have on my great grandfather is this He was born the 19th June 1892 to Samuel and Florence Young they married just after his birth. He had two brothers Albert 1898 and Robert 1885 and a sister Nellie 1900 I know where they all lived. He joined the navy in 1910 as a stoker and worker up to first class stoker the last date on his naval record is the 9th June 1921. His son was born 17th Jan 1916 when he was a first class stoker on HMS venerable he then served on various ships and the fianl one is Victory 2. Can find no marriage to his son's mother even though she used his name as hers when registering the birth - she married in 1920 to someone else after she told everyone that he had died in the war!!

What rank did he reach in the Navy? If he was officer rank, his death may have been in the Times and found in the online archives. Have you even a rough idea where he died or was living just prior to his death? Think of other avenues. Could he have been a freemason? Grand lodge will tell you his date of death if he was. Any other clubs or societies that he may have belonged to? Just keep trying to think of possibilities or otherwise it's a nightmare expensive trawl through the 1837. Put any info you have on here and someone might just be able to come up with a suggestion. Ian

I will keep trying Sad I know but when I found his naval record I cried, all the family though he had died in ww1 and then I go and prove it wrong and even get his eye colour which we now know where we all get ours from. I sat and made a promise that I would find him and then go to the rgave of his son's mother and ask her why she lied about him and that we know the truth!! Yes I'm addicted feel as though I owe it to him