Genealogy Chat

If you are leaglly adopted NO-ONE , not even the police are entitled to demand your ORIGINAL birth cert. You , once adopted legally become John Smith (or Who ever) and that is your legal identity.He has no right to demand an Original one ,

Thanks all,i had to go away and vent off a bit of steam before i got a bit too excited. Will let you know the outcome,think this one going to run and run. Glen

Hi Working in banking I can safely say that for adults a birth cert is not proof of ID - a passport confirms who you are and a driving license or a utility bill no more that 3 months old can be used for address ID Reason birth cert is no good for adults is that you can get them for any Tom Dick or harry. We also have to check new employees for residence ( illegal immigrants ) and a passport and driving license is sufficent if he can prove who is who from a cert maybe he should be a guest on this website and he can save us all a lot of time. My hubby is adopted and didn't get his original birth cert until he was in his 30's, so if any employer had wanted this prior to his 30's he would never have got any job - I also know what he would say if employer asked him for it, he is not who it says on his birth cert he is someone else and has been since 6 weeks old, so no good checking his birth cert as the person named on it no longer exists.

hi glen it would be registerd in your birth name and then just the ref number is changed iv just found me and my sisters on 1837 and this is what they have done to our entery hope this helps angie x

to Lizloojay I am confused that you say that the Adopted Child Register cannot be searched. I searched the register about 15 years ago when the records were held in St Catherine's House. It only gave our 'new' names and obviously has no reference to our 'old' names, but you could look your new name up if you wanted to get a rough date for your adoption if you did not know it. The names are put in every three months I think, so each set of records would be for a quarter. Has it changed, are you now not able to even look in these registers? I have not been there since as have been living in Scotland. Hope you can put me right Eileen

Eileen, I too looked up my friend's entry at St Catherine's (see earlier post) but it was not in the actual adoption register, which is the linking document and so obviously not on public display. I thought the document I used was called 'Index of adoptions' - it was on an open shelf and was arranged chronologically (sp?) according to court proceedings. perhaps it is no longer available now the stuff has gone to the FRC. Jay

Hi I'm sorry to but in on your thread but can someone help me re birth indexing. My 2 x great grandfathers sister was born in 1850c in Ireland, not sure exactly where yet. It dosen't look like her parents married until they came over here in 1853. Her birth wasn't registered but I have been told that she had her birth legitimised on 01/011/1927. My queries are, surely that is the date for the new adoption laws, I didn't think that the way of a legitimising a birth altered then, surely she left it abit late ie when she was 77, would I be able to see the papers ie new birth certificate if I am not a direct descendant?. Thanks for your time A confused half pint

I don't think anyone has access to adoption information apart from the adoptee themselves, even if they are deceased. Jay

to Jay thanks, I obviously got the name wrong - blame age and impending senility of a 1944 model (lol) next question, where has St Catherines House gone now then? When I looked up my original birth cert. it was around 1967 ish and it was all in beautiful handwritten registers in Somerset House. Quiet and dignified. When I went to St Catherines House around 15 years ago it was all badly typed, filthy dirty and reeking of cigarettes and horribly stuffy with no elbow room for anyone. What is it like now? I am moving back South from Scotland shortly and hope to go again. But where to Eileen P S - Anyone reading this happen to be born 22.9.45 -birth names Jennifer Ann - born in Woking Maternity Hospital, mother resident in Bisley. If so, you are my sister, please get in touch

Alice, Joanne, From my understanding of Glen's explanation of his predicament, his employer is demanding he provide his full certificate, not his original certificate, rather than his short certificate. His employer probably has no idea that he is adopted. Eileen, The following quote is from the GRO website on the page that gives details of the Adopted Children's Register: 'The Adopted Children Register is not open to public inspection or search' It can be found at: http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/adoptions/adoptedchildrenregister/ I have never attempted a search myself, so I do not know if this is a recent policy or not. Liz

Liz, i think i understood that- i have never had a FULL post adoption cert so wouldnt be able to produce mine either!! Alice x

Sorry Alice, didn't mean to state the obvious! I remember seeing mine when I was a child, I don't really know why my parents had it as it wasn't necessary. I applied a few weeks ago out of curiosity and it came very quickly, but did cost £11.50 as I did not have the ref. number. Liz x

My stepdad only ever had a short certificate and that was adequate to get him a passport. Lisa

Hi all,many hanks for the comments and insights,and especially for the support. I know several of the names on this thread as we often cross paths elsewherei have just spoken to the person asking for the certs and will try to explain further. He says he i have to prove my identity,and prove i can legally work without a work permit,this can only be done with a long birth certificate or a passport. I do not have a passport,do not want one (his trucks run abroad at times and i don't want to do that) and don't feel obliged to obtain one just to prove my citizenship,nationality or whatever. However as my birth cert is in a different name to the one i am known by he will accept the long adoption certificate,but not the short one. Seeing as the extra information on the long one relates to court names dates and the names,occupations etc of my adoptive parents (who are still alive) i don't see the need to provide those details,and object to doing so.Bearing in mind this is a document first issued in the mid 1960's,it is somewhat useless anyhow for his purposes. I could ask for permission from my parents to provide him with the cert complete with thier names on it,but seeing as one of them is suffering with Parkinsons and dimensia it's not really possible to say whether they know what they are consenting to,and what does it all prove anyway? Makes you think doesn't it,if the company has such an attitude to obtaining the info,how do they store it,and how easily would they pass it on. And all this for a document with no legal merit as a form of identity. Glen

Just a thought would your gp write a letter saying that he/she has known your for x number of years? xxhugxx

Nuge for Lindy,

I'm totally confused now, are you showing him your post or pre adoption cert then? Your post adoption cert is surely the name you use? or is this more complicated than it seems ?? just to re-iterate, NO-ONE bar no one has the right to demand to see your pre adoption cert.

Alice, This is confusing me now too! I had assumed that it was the short adoption certificate which the employer had rejected, but that would show the same name as the full one. Glen, If your employer is rejecting your *original* birth certificate in your birth name, then he is right to do so as that person no longer exists, if you get my drift. As I said previously, that certificate is only of sentimental and/ or curiosity value to you yourself. Liz x

Alice,all i would provide is my short post adoption cert,as you say it has my current name and an English district on it.I can't see what he would gain getting my parents names. Lindy,good idea,basically the same as the endorsing signature you have to provide the DVLA for verification of your photo for a driving licence. I feel a phone call coming. Not that it makes much difference i should say my adoption is under English law the company is Scottish subsiduary of multi national pan european firm. Glen

I'm getting cross reading this too Glen. Bureacracy gone too far, in my opinion. Have you considered seeking legal opinion on the validity of employer's request? When my hubby was asked to show his birth certificate by that recruitment agency, they did actually send him the copy of the Govt legislation they say they are working to. It says the employer has a duty to establish the applicant/employee has the right to work in the UK. (If you are a British national this is automatic.) What the law does NOT state is how this is to be proved. Birth certs and passports are usually taken as proof of nationality - BUT as ** we ** all know (because it says on it) a birth cert is not proof of identity. If your employer is INSISTING that a full cert is the only way, because of the change of name, he is guilty of discrimination against adoptees, isn't he. [this also begs the question about how the Bulger killers are managing with their 'new' identities, but that's very much another matter] At the very least, you ought to be able to establish some dialogue as to what sort of proof is acceptable. A third party getting involved might help. Dont suppose you're in a Trade Union? If it was me I'd take this further, on a point of principle, however I can appreciate you might not want to get off on the wrong foot with new employer. best of luck.