Genealogy Chat

These are the only two deaths in Cumberland on ancestry that have what could be the right age of death between 1901 and 1916. View Record Hill, William 1902 March Deaths Carlisle Cumbria Cumberland (he was 69 at death) View Record Hill, William 1910 June Deaths Cockermouth Cumbria Cumberland (he was 55 at death) Could be either, but would have thought it more likely to be the latter. Gloria

Having used a combination of the Nat Archives 1901 census (where you can ask for marital status - in this case ''married'') and Ancestry, this is the only William Hill in Cumberland who is married but not living with his family. Obviously Jane's husband might not be in Cumberland, but it's a start: William Hill abt 1873 Ireland Boarder Millom Rural Cumberland As you see, he is a few years younger than Jane and would have been only about 19 when they married (if he is the right chap!). His occupation is General labourer, which covers nearly everything! Then he needs to die before 1916......... But I can't get Family Relatives to tell me!! Merry

Hunted high and low but cannot find William Hill an iron worker Sorry Gloria

PM from Pauline: ''WITTNESSES IN 1916 WERE JOHN JAMES KING KATIE COSTIGAN. WILLIAM WAS A IRON WORKER BUT WAS DEAD IN 1916. ALEX WAS THEN LIVING BELL ST WORKINGTON THANK YOU FOR TRYING'' Thanks for the above, Pauline (please could you post any replies on the thread though!!). I think the family with son Alexander b 1895 are the right family. It's a matter of trying to trace missing hubby, William, in 1901 for his occupation and if the same William has died by 1916. If those things pan out, then I bet they are the ones..... Back later to examine 1901 for missing William. Merry

Sugar!!!! Merry, I give up for a bit, going to do some cleaning----eeerrrggghhh Gloria

Dora Kirsopp and Jane Ann Kirsopp were sisters : 1881 >>>>Dora Kirsopp abt 1873 Alston, Cumberland, England Daughter Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England Elizabeth Kirsopp abt 1840 Alston, Cumberland, England Wife Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England Elizabeth Kirsopp abt 1868 Alston, Cumberland, England Daughter Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England James W. Kirsopp abt 1878 Alston, Cumberland, England Son Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England >>>>Jane Ann Kirsopp abt 1869 Alston, Cumberland, England Daughter Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England Louisa Kirsopp abt 1876 Alston, Cumberland, England Daughter Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England Margaret Kirsopp abt 1871 Alston, Cumberland, England Daughter Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England Ruth Kirsopp abt 1874 Alston, Cumberland, England Daughter Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England Sarah A. Kirsopp abt 1880 Alston, Cumberland, England Daughter Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England Thomas Kirsopp abt 1864 Alston, Cumberland, England Son Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England William Kirsopp abt 1844 Alston, Cumberland, England Head Leadgate, Alston, Cumberland, England and so Jane after her marriage............. (her age is mistranscribed by 10 years): Dora Hill abt 1898 Henshaw, Northumberland, England Daughter Henshaw Northumberland Elizabeth Hill abt 1897 Henshaw, Northumberland, England Daughter Henshaw Northumberland Ernest Hill abt 1896 Henshaw, Northumberland, England Son Henshaw Northumberland Ethel Hill abt 1898 Henshaw, Northumberland, England Daughter Henshaw Northumberland Jane Hill abt 1879 Alston, Cumberland, England Wife Henshaw Northumberland Thomas W Hill abt 1867 Alston, Cumberland, England Head Henshaw Northumberland She has named a child after her sister, but only seems to have the one son, who's name isn't Thomas or Alexander........ :o(( so, wrong people?? Merry

Well, Dora did marry William Oliphant: Louisa Kirsopp abt 1876 Leadgate, Cumberland, England Sister-in-law Kirkdale Lancashire Albert Oliphant abt 1900 Liverpool Son Kirkdale Lancashire Dora Oliphant abt 1873 Leadgate, Cumberland, England Wife Kirkdale Lancashire Harold Oliphant abt 1897 Liverpool Son Kirkdale Lancashire William Oliphant abt 1871 Abbey, Cumberland, England Head Kirkdale Lancashire William Percy Oliphant abt 1896 Liverpool Son Kirkdale Lancashire and looking for Jane from Leadgate married to Thomas William Hill............Drat, can't find her....!! Merry

Just to throw a cat among the pigeons this could explain the Thomas--middle name *****View Record Hill, Thomas William 1894 December Marriages Alston Cumberland View Record Kirsopp, Dora 1894 December Marriages Alston Cumberland *****View Record Kirsopp, Jane Ann 1894 December Marriages Alston Cumberland View Record Oliphant, William 1894 December Marriages Alston Cumberland Could be way out on this one Gloria Pauline----we could do with some feed back--please

I would like to know the witnesses in 1916. Merry

So......resumé........ William Hill (details unknown) married Jane Hogg (from Scotland b 1866) in 1892. They had two sons by 1901. The younger called Alexander, b 1895. He was born in Westmoreland, not Cumberland, but was living in Cuberland by 1901. Alexander (Thomas) Hill married Mary Costigan in 1916, after the death of his father. Only problem I see is that Alex introduced a middle name and he lied about his age, being only 20 at the wedding!! Merry

Ah yes I have just found Mary Costigan married to 'Hill' June 1/4 1916. So that we know for sure. I presume Pauline has the cert and it says his father is deceased. Gloria

This is the birth reg of the son of William and Jane. Births Sep 1895 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hill Alexander Kendal 10b 757 Merry

Oh dear Gloria, well that's what I took it to mean,.....Have just looked.....1916 Q2....yes. Alex to Mary! Merry

So was it Alexander who married Mary Costigan?????

Well, that was the right marriage for William and Jane (proving that the father of Alexander born 1896 was indeed called WILLIAM)......because here she is before she married! 1891 Jane Hogg abt 1866 Scotland Servant Rockcliffe Cumberland Merry

I'd say Mary was over 21 when she married in 1916 (b 1894) and Alexander wanted to be too, but he was born in 1896 (and without a middle name!!). So he told a porkie! Merry

If that Alexander is the one (and I'm not saying he is! LOL) then this might be the parents marriage: This is the only William Hill marrying a Jane between 1891 and 1895 in Cumberland (should they have married there?!!) Marriages Dec 1892 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HILL William Brampton 10b 729 HOGG Jane Brampton 10b 729 McNICOL Robert Brampton 10b 729 Noble Annie Brampton 10b 729 Does the name Jane Hogg sound Scottish?????? Merry

Merry you have Mary born 1894, Alexander Thomas was supposed to have been born 1894. Something doesn't add up with this, there is no sign of any of them anywhere. Gloria

Jeanette, William died BY 1916....she doesn't know when. Just dec'd on son's marriage cert :o(( Merry

Gloria, his wife says Married not Widowed in 1901 :o(( He could be anywhere and I don't think they were married by 1891 (No Jane Hills from Scotland right age, on that census) Merry