Genealogy Chat

Merry I think we are actually agreeing, not disagreeing, except that I got the finer details wrong! I assumed that the Vicar copied out the marriage register and sent it to the Registrar: your info says its the other way round, the Vicar sends the loose sheets to the Registrar and keeps his own Register. (I actually thought of this in the middle of the night, LOL). So: (for marriages) The Church Register will have original signatures on it. The loose copies sent to the Registrar may or may not have original signatures on it, depending on how the Vicar conducted the Wedding (i.e. he got the happy couple to sign both) A Registry Office Wedding will alawys have original signatures at a local RO. GRO certs MAY or MAY NOT have original signatures depending on which particular bit of paper the Registrar sent. Have I got this right at last!??! Olde Crone

Just want to add my praises of Liverpool registry office, very prompt and photocopy of original register. The related Lancs BMD site has just added a lot more marriage data in the last few weeks. Louise

Thanks Bob and Merry; think I've got it now. Bill

William, if you get a cert from a local office, it will generally be one of three things: 1) A typed transcript made by the current registrar reading from the original register. 2) A hand written transcript made by the current registrar reading from the original register. 3) A photocopy taken from the original register. **This is the only way you can see your rellies signatures via the civil reg systems**. All GRO certs are copies made at the end of the quarter the event happened. Merry

William please read my first reply. There is no doubt about this, it is how the 1836 Registration Act says it must be. Or ask your vicar ! I did , ( he is only over the road) Bob

I'm a bit new to all this so found everyone's comments both interesting and helpful. However, at the end of it all I'm a bit confused. Is the consensus that the copies we get from local offices will show the signatures (or marks) of our rellies? Or are the copies from the GRO the actual McCoy? Back to the start of this thread, the message was that local offices are faster than the GRO and we get a 'true' copy. I recently applied for a cert from Dolgellau which came back almost by return, but was a typed transcript. I've also been into the Flintshire office in Mold where the staff were v helpful and took my request details. They then called me the following day; but unfortunately to say they couldn't find the ones I wanted. I've now sent off to the GRO using the ref from 1837 and am waiting in anticipation (and ever increasing impatience!). Cheers, Bill

Olde Crone said the GRO copies would all be in the registrars writing.....I am saying C of E marriage GRO entries will be in the Vicar's handwriting, that's all!! Merry

Merry they will have the different handwriting of vicars/registrars but that's not what we are on about. The original ones with signatures of bride, groom and witnesses are all held locally. In Paula's example the transcriber has completed the name. It normally would have 'X the mark of' like the original. He has also written the signature in his own hand This shows that they are not the same. Bob

Ooh, Paula, was it you??? See what I've written above........makes sense now?? Merry

Have just checked my certificate against the copy of the parish register i printed out. The writing of all the details looks the same on both copies but the grooms signature is different. The bride only signed with an X on the original

Dare I disagree with Olde Crone???? I'm not saying I am right, just that info I have is different to hers!! Church marriage (copied from my thread called ''Victorian Registrars and the GRO - What was supposed to happen!''): At the end of the quarter the ordained church minister (for C of E and other churches that didn't require the attendance of the registrar), completed the GRO copies of the marriage entries for the quarter just ended. These GRO copies were hand-written on pre-printed loose sheets, with four marriages to a side of paper up to 1852 and two marriages to a side after that date. Once the minister had written up his sheets, detailing all the marriages for the Q, he would forward them to the local superintendent registrar, who would also have made copies of all the marriages he had conducted, on similar loose sheets. The sup. registrar would wait until he had collected the sheets from all the ministers in his district (churches had a special form to fill in if they had conducted no weddings). He would then tie them into a bundle along with his own copy entries, and send them off to the GRO. So, the clerks at the GRO would receive a bundle of sheets from every sup. registrar in England and Wales. Within each bundle would be sheets in all different handwritings from all the different ministers and registrars for that area. ......blah, blah, blah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What I'm saying is, the GRO copy for a C of E marriage will be in the handwriting of the vicar, not the registrar. So whoever it was who said (sorry, have forgotten who it was!) they had seen the parish register and it looked like an exact copy..........only the signatures would be different - everything else would be in the same handwriting. All the above was taken from a useful book called ''A Comedy of Errors - The marriage records of England and Wales 1837-1899''' by Michael W Foster. Merry (*runs for cover*)

This subject keeps cropping up and people are still confused! Original registers are by law ( the 1836 act ) held by district registrars and in addition for church weddings either by the church (if they have secure storage facilities) or the county records office. (two registers are signed at churches and plus a cert for the bride) For most of the periods we are interested in the GRO certificates are hand transcriptions. ( though some later ones are photocopies of originals?) They are thus prone to additional errors. Many also never got there so there are many records at local level missing from GRO. From the above it can be seen that GRO won’t have records that don’t exist locally. As the GRO records are derived from local registers then errors and omissions can only be compounded. You have probably got the wrong office as districts have changed and records have been split between districts. That’s the problem with local records that the local BMD sites will solve. Just because local offices hold the originals doesn’t mean that you will get a copy of that. They are all different. As Old Crone says always ASK. Some offices may think they are doing you a favour with a faded original and may give the option. Bob

I think we're suddenly going to find our certificates are taking longer and longer to arrive if we keep singing the praises of local offices!!!

I have ordered certs from Bolton,,,Tynemouth, Sunderland Norfolk and Yorkshire record offices. All given quick service and very helpful too, I would never bother with the GRO unless it was a last resourt.

I know Merry - the problem is when districts split and half go to one place and the other half go to another...

This website lists all the Victorian Districts and where the registers are currently held for each one. When you use the link for the present day office ytou will see if they can take instructions any other way then letter. http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/reg/gls.htm Something that I don't think has been mentioned............I know we have said some local offices will not do family history certs (esp in London) but here's another problem I have come across............... An example: I have a lot of rellies registered in Keynsham District. The Genuki site mentioned above tells me the ''Registers now divided between Bath & North East Somerset, South Gloucestershire and Bristol districts.'' So, Keynsham books are divided between three different offices. When I have phoned these offices to say, ''Do you have Keynsham Birth regs for 1856?'' (or whatever) I have always been sent on a wild goose chase round the three offices, each of whom say one of the other two has the appropriate register!! I have had similar happen several times, not just with Keynsham district, but with several others too. I have tried sending a letter to one office asking if they can pass on the request if they don't have the right register.....usually the letter has been returned to me and I have had to then post another letter to the next office etc etc This is partly why I now use the GRO. I would rather use the local offices, as the people are generally very friendly and try to be helpful, but it is such a flippin' rigmarole!! Merry

Hi Everyone There is a universal site which will give everyone their local/regional offices try this: WWW(.)ukbmd(.)org(.)uk Links on the left and read the page for information regarding local/national offices. Snowdrops

hi Lynn. That means she was registered in Farnham Registry Office. If you try googling it...

I've only ever bought from local registry offices and the longest I've ever had to wait was about 4 working days after ordering.

Hi You can't always get them from local offices as I went to one office to get 2 death certificates for a husband and wife after 2 days received the death cert. for the man but they said they could not find the one for the lady in question and in the end had to send to the GRO for it Margaret