Genealogy Chat

Janet

Thanks for the info. I have spent two full weeks at NRO going through the parish records....most of my names found there!

My ancestors were from a small village called Snetterton and like you, I was first in last out every day to get as much info as possible (wish I lived in Norfolk). The staff there were helpful, but couldn't suggest anything more than what I was doing. My 3xgt grandfather (according to IGI - based on a comment in a family diary) was from the village, as were his parents. I have been lucky enough to view the original register (the master fiche copies had been sent away to have more copies made) There were no references to my family prior to the baptism of their first daughter Elizabeth (presumably named after her grandmother which the diary refers to). Since my visit, I have traced another child of my 3xgt grandfather on a census, claiming he was born in Snetterton 1806 (before Elizabeth) and suprisingly - named after my 4xgt grandfather William (from same diary).

I have recently discovered that there are some arch deacon transcripts for the period in this parish, so when I can get back to the records offices, I can take a look to find them. All of my 3xgt grandfather's sons were shepherds as were most of their sons! Some have moved to other villages in Norfolk.

I will certainly ask them for advice on landowners for the village and see what I can find there....when I can get back there, that is!

Thankyou for your invaluable advice
Dee

Clive really knew his stuff didnt he Sue, God bless him.

Dee

Norfolk County Record Office should really be your first port of call. It was a Shepherd found in the Northants 1766 Militia List that found all my ancestors back to 1600's in a small village about 5 miles from the hamlet I was first interested in. So Militia Lists are invaluable as are the original registers for births and marriages. Burials rather than deaths were recorded pre 1837 but back to the 1600's many were buried in wool so you can look for the affidavits for those. Google search for "Buried in wool" to find out more about this act. Many people married by licence so you should look for any there might be for your family. Any illegitimate children will have to be maintained by a putative father, or on the parish so worth looking for those. Where did they work? Many of mine worked for landed gentry as so many did and you will find references on A2A for these folk when you know who they are. Google search your village +history or Genealogy to find out more. The same squires owners of manors etc will pop up! I know there is a lot of info for Norfolk so try googling for starters.

When I get to a CRO I am the first there and the last to leave, still writing as I am shooed out of the door!!

If your folk moved from village to village as some of them would have done, being shepherds, then you will possibly find Settlement Certs.

Join Norfolk Family History Society, cost £10 a year appox. You may be able to purchase CD's through them of various sorts. Northants does Cd's on Gamekeepers Indexes amognst other things, So much info out there.

Take holiday near to the Record Office for a few days and see what pops up for you!

Janet North London Borders

Certainly is food for thought! My husbands ancestors bought up 10 kids in a tiny cottage, the women must have been tough. Although they had more family support and support from neighbours, which many of us who've moved away dont have. Hadnt thought before about ag labs being knowledgable on stars positions; but of course that makes sense.

Janet

thanks for nudging this up for me. I am amazed at how much information other GR members have found on their Ag Labs.

I would love to find out what life was like for the many Shepherds I have in my tree (from Norfolk). I have visited the villages they were born in..such small communities, I have stood in the churches where they were baptised/married or buried. It was lovely.

Would anyone know where to look for any further information I can research on the Shepherds. for example; who were the landowners, are there any employment records to see, when the families moved into the villages etc etc. I just do not know where to start looking. I know there was an agricultural depression around 1880-1890 when (I am told) many ag labs and shepherds moved north from Norfolk to work either in the cotton mills or steel industries. My great grandfather (a shepherd) moved to a tiny village near Beverley, East Yorkshire to raise his family. I've been trying to find records of his employment on the land there, but to no avail. I do know he passed his skills to my grandfather whos career was based around gardening, gamekeeping, and then as a cobler! But what of my gt grandfathers' brothers and cousins? some moved to fulham - how do I find out what could have attracted them there??

Any advice as to where to look, would be appreciated from you long term GR geneologists on here!

Thanks to all those who have contributed on this thread and given me an insight into their research.

Dee

6 x great grandad described as Yeoman Farmer on his licence to marry, 1731, sons some Farmers some Ag Labs.
Come 1833, Farmers sons shifted ,my 2xgreat grandad shoemaker, his brothers wheelwright, wood sawyer. Ag Lab's
When I saw the lovely village they left, I wished I could have lived there.

My maternal Grandmothers family come from a long ling of Horsemen and Ag Labs, again they lived longer than my East End side, Nan used to tell me that when she was 8 years old she had to walk 3 miles to school, She was up at 5 to do her chores on the farm they worked on. walked half way to school and did chores on another farm. then continued to school. She did the same on the way home. the other farm paid her a pittence but doing it ment she and her younger sisters could have boots and a coat to go to school in the winter. She was born in 1900 Suffolk. Could you see a child of today doing that.

n

This is something that Clive Buckle said about ag labs earlier this year on 15/06/2007

A farm servant was different from an Ag Lab because

a) (S)he was hired on Lady Day for one year at a fixed wage.
b)(S)he had to be single and remain so for the year
c) Lived in

An Ag Lab was only paid when (s)he worked - bad weather could be a real tragedy

(S)he could marry

(S)he might have to walk miles to get to work

Many Ag Labs in Norfolk, Suffolk and Dorset worked under the gang system where conditions were so bad even parliament got round to doing something about.

and another reply on that thread then explained
Lady Day is on the 25th March which is first of the Vernal Equinox quarters of the year.
Farm years traditionally started on this day.

This is an interesting article
http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcam/aglab.htm

I also found this
http://www.littlecoxwell.com/history/class-terminology.php

ag. lab. - agricultural labourer

The term "Ag. Lab." is frequently found in census records, but it should not be taken at face value. Before the Twentieth Century the word "labourer" was used rather as we would use the word "worker", e.g., in factory worker, or shop worker. It should be taken as a general term for anyone employed in agriculture including a variety of highly skilled jobs, such as shepherds or cowmen. For instance a shepherd was entrusted by a farmer with the upkeep of a valuable resource, and was expected to have sufficient expertise to handle everything that pertained to his flocks, including their health.



Sue

I just wanted to say 'thank you' for that fascinating insight into the life of Ag. Labs - I have loads in my ancestry, some as young as 10 and as old as 70. An aunt told me that she and her siblings picked oakum to help the family finances and they all looked forward to the spring when they had lambs tail pie - provided by granpa who was a shepherd. It truly was another world.

Sandra, adding any reply to a thread - 'nudge', 'n', or just a . - will 'bookmark' it so you can call it up again if you need to refresh your memory. (As I often do!)

Bee.

Nudge

Janet North London Borders

Thanks Sue, There is so much to learn, wish I had started to do this 20 years ago. x

It just keeps the thread to the first page so it remains current.

Hi Julie, What does 'a nudge ' mean ??

Well I will certainly look at all my Ag Lab's in a different way now, it was a real eye opener, reading all the messages.

I come from a great long line of ag labs and farmers. They lived notably long lives, lost few children in infancy and although I cannot know what privations they went through, they survived. In the 1850s, they all headed for Manchester, to work on the railways and in the Mills. They died like flies, of TB, childbirth and cholera mostly. Few made it past 40 and my huge bank of ancestors has dwindled down to ONE person by 1900 - my paternal grandfather. OC

Nudge for Sandra

I have to say I recognise much of what Brian has said and I lived in a rural situation which had not changed much in 200 years.

You could indeed be convicted and even transported overseas for poaching game and that could include rabbits and hares. Most country people caught rabbits through gin traps, ferrets and wire made into a noose and put over the burrow hole, all methods which I remember being used during W War 2. Unfortunately 2 of my pet cats were caught in the gintraps and died horrible deaths, of which I still have very strong memories. We lived in a farm cottage with 2 up and 2 down, with a scullery at the back, a well outside and the toilet (a bucket and seat with newspaper for toilet paper. No newspaper? Well there was always Dock Leaves!!) at the bottom of the garden, to be emptied into a ditch which we had to dig ourselves, which served as manure for the vegetable garden!

Most ag labs going back over the centuries would have done as we did during the 2 World War years, grown their own vegetables, picked wild mushrooms, wortleberries and blackberries in season and would make plenty of pies. Wild crab apples and sloes and other berries were used in other ways. Fruit Liquids would have been strained through muslin bags and sour milk used in so many ways to make junket or scones. Many ag labs would have kept chickens, a goat and certainly would not have gone hungry unless too much drink was consumed! There was no electricity and candles would have been used.

There were 4 of us living in the cottage desribed above during the War Years, but a look at the 1891 Census revealed a family of 7 children and 3 adults and I marvel to think how they could have packed them all in there. The same family was there in 1871 and 1881 with slightly fewer children than 1891. In 1871 the family were working on the farmland, but by 1891 they were working in the nearby quarry, going up in the world?? Well, by 1901 they had totally disappeared from the area.

There was always plenty of commonland around the country for people to be able to collect firewood legally, and I certainly remember dragging branches home from the copses on the moorland to 'feed' the fire, and that custom had not changed over 200 years. The way of farming that I remember in Cornwall with the scything of the fields, stooking the hay /corn and the hay carts with their farm horses had not changed very much in over 200 years, though as the 2 World War progressed, I saw the coming of the Hay Binder first of all,and then the Tractor, followed by the Combine Harvester, which saw one owner using it for the several farms in the area. Many people had already left the land to work at the nearby Claypits and Tin Mines but whether that was better employment than farming would be very debateable. They may have been paid more money, but at what cost, as we all know what happened to the Clay Pits and the Tin Mines and the atrocious conditions people working in these areas lived under.

There was no money to spare as a farm labourer, but they did have a roof over their heads, sometimes in the form of a tied cottage but by no means were they always tied cottages. They also had the the two most important elements of life that most people craved for, even in the towns, warmth and food. They also got plenty of exercise and fresh air, something that few Town Dwellers were able to enjoy.

It all went sour with the industrial revolution when people moved into the town/city for more lucratrive work and the ag lab realised he was being left behind moneywise.

I suppose, just like today, the grass was always greener on the other side of the fence but was it?

Oh yes, I have a poacher of wild game who was caught not once, but twice and then transported to OZ leaving behind a destitute family. I am not sure that he was poaching rabbits as he lived on the estate of one of the Royal Parks!

Most of my Ag Labs lived to a ripe old age. All my shoemakers never seemed to get past 40 but when you read of the horrendous concoctions they made for preserving the leather, that is not surprising. My bakers worked most of the night, as well as the daytime and some of these emigrated. The factory worker's conditions make you shudder and it needed a person like Shaftesbury to fight for the rights of the factory worker whilst it was left to Dickens to fight for the big Cities like London.

Janet North London Borders

I come from a long line of Ag Labs, and have been one fror 30 odd years, I used to know so much more than I do now ( lots of info. not used, so forgotten) Farming will never be quite the same, its now BIG business. Shame. Tina