Genealogy Chat

Sarah Have sent you a PM Fruitbat

Hi Helen They were John Moreton (b 1875) and Selina (poss middle name Stayley), b1879, Fieldstead, married in 1897 in Chester St John, and still together in 1901 as they're on the census with their son in Liverpool. He remarried in 1921.

What were their full names Sarah? Mine married end of 1868 and divorce proceedings began in 1872! Fruitbat

I've just recently found out that my g'grandfather's first wife, whom he divorced from, more than likely killed herself and never remarried. As far as I can gather she kept their son and for some reason another child, poss a daughter moved as far away as possible with him. This of course is firing up my curiosity even futher, if only I could narrow it down by ten years ! Does anyone know, in the early 1900's , how long you had to separate for , before you could divorce?

I only inquired about divorce this morning - some good info here thanks janey

In this case, she actually won the divorce and was given custody of their son and ended up remarrying and having more children but it sounds as though she was taken advantage of at a very vulnerable age. However, in prior divorce cases, it was the norm for the man to win the divorce no matter how unfarly he had treated his wife and tragically if this was the case, he immediately had custody of any children and they were not allowed to see their mother again. Our female ancestors suffered many extreme hardships - god bless them. Fruitbat

Oh Helen, Doesn't it make you so very sad to hear of the terrible treatment given to our female ancesters? (family or not). TGx

I forgot to add my gt gt g/fathers divorce record from 1873 had a 100 year closure on it but am not sure what the time span is on the more recent ones. The divorce is all part and parcel of your research - it puts real meat on the bones!! I ascertained that he got his much younger wife pregnant and they married (presumably shotgun) 3 weeks before baby was due and he therefore wasn't recorded as illegitimate.However, upon returning from the church after being wed, he told her, he'd never live her and she was instantly deserted. She pleaded for months with him and one night he took her in but literally kicked her out on the street at 6 in the morning after he had got her up at 5 to make out bills etc!!! There were several references to adultery, one being with an unknown woman in the stables!! Fruitbat

Thank you Helen. I still feel a bit rocked to discover only a week ago that my granddad was married before he married my nan. Thanks to this board, I now know who he married then and that their child was not his brothers child as we had all, always been told. I feel that I need to put all the facts together and getting the divorce details is part of that. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. TGx

Hi Tiger-Lily (cool name!) I have just ascertained a copy of my gt gt grandfathers' divorce from the National Archives in Kew. On his second marriage cert, it stated he was the divorced husband of... I found the year and the cause number of the divorce from the National Archivist site which has now been transferred to 1837 online (I believe). I also found a mention of their divorce in the Times but it only stated Butterworth v Butterworth and who the case was up before. Armed with my cause number, I went to Kew which was a bit daunting at first but I am so pleased I did it now. I double checked the cause number against a catalogue J78 pertaining certain years and the relevant microfiche film to look at. The cause number was correct, 2213. I then looked this number up within a range, again in a catalogue, this time J77. This gives you another number (ie 2210 - 2270 = 197) so the original documents I had to order was J77/197. I had about a 30 minute wait until a box of divorce records arrived and I sifted through carefully until I found my one and what interesting reading it made!! You can photocopy original on A3 paper. The staff there are very helpful plus there are leaflets on every aspect of research. I picked up a few to read in advance of my next visit. The websites Family Records and National Archives also have advice on looking up divorces which is very useful. Good luck! Helen (Fruitbat)

Sarah M, You are such a sweetie to give me all this info - thank you so much. TGx

Hi Merry, No you haven't looked for these names before as a divorce, but Albert is my grandad and you were helpful in finding Alberts parents for me not long ago. You must have a very good memory. TGx

My great granddad divorced, which I onloy found out from his and my great grans marraige cert, which stated his first wife's name too. It said 'formerly married to such and such from whom he obtained a divorce'. Obviously I'm so curious I can't leave it alone lol, so have inquired as to how to get access to the records. If you get in touch wiith these peoepl: Principal Registry of the Family Division First Avenue House 42-49 High Holborn London WC2V 6NP Tel: 020 7947 6971 or (international) +44 7947 6971 or there is an email address on the site for inquiries, they get back to you reall yquickly and send you the forms for the search. Its a wee bit expensive. Here's a bit from the info they sent me: 'What is the Central Index of Decrees Absolute? The Central Index is a record of all decrees absolute granted by Courts in England and Wales since 1858. It is kept and controlled by the Principal Registry of the Family Division and anyone is entitled to apply for a search to be carried out, and to receive a certificate of the result and any decree absolute traced. People may wish to apply for a search of the Central Index for a number of reasons, the most common of which are:- * To obtain a copy of their decree absolute, if they have lost the original and no longer have a record of the case details * To find out whether they have been divorced, following a long separation from their spouse * To find out whether a friend or relative has been divorced * To help trace a family tree or other historical reasons How do I apply for a search? To apply for a search you will need to complete a Form D440 and send it to: The Principal Registry of the Family Division Decree Absolute Search Section First Avenue House 42-49 High Holborn London WC1V 6NP Tel: 0207 947 6000 (switchboard) This form can be obtained from the above address. Alternatively, if you prefer, you can attend in person at the office, however, please note that if you do, staff can only search a three year period whilst you wait, if the years are prior to 1981. In such cases, the result of the remainder of the period requested to be searched, will be sent to you within 10 working days. Will I have to pay a fee? There is a fee of £25.00 to pay for each ten year period or part thereof searched. For example, if you wish a thirteen year period to be searched (i e 1958 to 1970 inclusive), the fee would be £50.00. You can pay your fee by cash, cheque or postal order. Cheques and postal orders should be made payable to “Her Majesty’s Court Service” or “HMCS”. We advise you against sending cash by post. ' My g-g'father divorced between 1900 and 1921 so I am trying to narrow it down to a ten year period so I can pay less! I've had a quick look in the Times archive, but maybe I wasn't looking in the right place - they had quite a bit of money so I would have though tthey woudl be in there. Will go and look again! PS Spilt very sweet tea (that'll teach me!) on my keyboard, so its very sticky so please excuse my typing today!

Are you absolutely sure there was a divorce? Most folks couldn't afford one, they just moved areas, became 'widowed' and married again.

Put divorce into the search box at the top of the message board and you'll find older threads with info. There's a National Archives online research leaflet about divorce records, which will be on the older threads. nell

I feel as if I've looked for these names before?? Anyway, tThe Times is no use, because there are too many Kirby v Kirby divorces....unless you know the name of the co-respondent???! Possibly the 1928 new spouse???!!!! Merry

Hi Merry, Sorry I had been ordering some more certs! Yes, Albert re-married 4th Quarter of 1928. Thanks TGx

Is there a date by which you know the divorce must have gone thru?? Such as a remarriage date, for instance? Merry

Thanks Valerie, I don't know if my family was ever posh enough for The Times, but I'll have a look. I was just convinced that somewhere I saw a reference to divorce records - could well be wrong though. TGx

hi I know what you mean once you find something your mind just wants to know everything about them Laura