Genealogy Chat

What's with the 'ten minutes'? I'm sure that's not mentioned in the Data Protection Act! What if you're a really quick reader with a photographic memory - you could memorise a whole street in the time it takes a slow reader to find the right page number. I have the edited version of the last few electoral rolls on disc, all perfectly legal, bought from the legitimate online company that produces them (192(.)com). Am I only allowed to do lookups for 10 minutes at a time? Mandy :)

I was in Folkestone library a couple of months ago, and all the electoral rolls from 1975 backwards are freely available to look at in the Heritage Room. I started to photocopy the pages I wanted for each specific year, and the librarian came over and stopped me. She went away, phoned someone up to clarify the law, and then told me I could only photocopy up to three pages from each register. I didn't want that many anyway, and it's not as if they stood over me to check what I was doing, but the system seems very unusual and dependant on the whims of each individual library. Manchester Library have most of their registers on microform into the 1960s at least, and you can get print-outs there with no problem at all from the self-service printer machine. If your library say you can't take photocopies, then they are lying.

What makes me (hollowly) laugh, is that I was told that the person took his case to the Human Rights Court. He had defaulted on his mortgage, had deliberately run up thousands of pounds on his crefit cards etc and then done a runner. The Mortgage Company traced him through the Electoral Rolls - and got their legs smacked by the Court of Human Rights. Olde Crone

In Newcastle upon Tyne all 'old' (I have not looked at post 2002 ones) are available to view but there is a notice saying due to recent legislation they cannot be photocopied. Recently one was able to opt out of having ones name on rolls that are distributed and I think all libraries now restrict access to the modern ones. The legislation came in after the Data Protection Act but it was cos this person objected to councils selling his details to direct mail compnies so now one can opt out of this. I have just been to the staffordshire.gov.uk site they referred you to and it confirms that you and I are correct. However it does depend what they mean by full supervision. It also gives someone to complain to. Dated 1921 to 2001 can be consulted only with full supervision cannot be photocopied or scanned into a PC can be copied by means of handwritten notes, not onto PCs can be copied for official purposes only by written permission from the relevant Electoral Registration Officer Dated 2002 and after (compiled 10/10/01, and coming into force February 2002) are now published in edited and full versions. Inclusion in the Full Register is compulsory by law. Inclusion in the edited version is optional are provided in local town/borough/district council offices for public consultation (Full Electoral Registers ONLY) can be bought by anyone for any purpose (edited versions ONLY) must be closely supervised at all times. cannot be photocopied or scanned into a PC can be copied by means of handwritten notes, not onto PCs can be used to confirm or deny that a specific individual lives at a specific address. The caller (whether a member of the public, or a financial institution) must give us the correct address and surname that they wish to verify. If they are unable to do this, they must consult the Register in person. Full Electoral Registers… are provided for public consultation and inspection so that: people can check that their own details are correctly listed, so that - if they are eligible - they can legally vote. Identification is not required. people can verify that the details of other people are correctly listed and that they are entitled to vote e.g. if they believe that someone has been included in the Register who is not legally entitled to vote, they can then report this to the Electoral Registration Officer people involved in the democratic and electoral process (e.g. to assist MPs, MEPs, candidates, elected mayors, and political parties etc.) can carry out their duties banks and credit agencies can make checks to verify individuals' details, under the 1993 Money Laundering Regulations law enforcement, security, and crime prevention bodies can meet their statutory obligations Legislation: Representation of the People Act 2000 Section 9 Statutory Instrument 2002 no 1871 http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2002/20021871.htm Please refer any complainants to the Electoral Registration Officer at the Town, Borough or District Council.

I makes my blood boil when organisations try to hide behind 'the law' in this way. This is from the Govt DPA Website The Data Protection Act 1998 sets out eight rules that data controllers must follow for protecting personal information - these are known as the eight principles. Personal data must be: * processed fairly and lawfully * processed only for one or more specified and lawful purpose * adequate, relevant and not excessive for those purposes * accurate and kept up to date - data subjects have the right to have inaccurate personal data corrected or destroyed if the personal information is inaccurate to any matter of fact * kept for no longer than is necessary for the purposes it is being processed * processed in line with the rights of individuals - this includes the right to be informed of all the information held about them, to prevent processing of their personal information for marketing purposes, and to compensation if they can prove they have been damaged by a data controller's non-compliance with the Act * secured against accidental loss, destruction or damage and against unauthorised or unlawful processing - this applies to you even if your business uses a third party to process personal information on your behalf * not transferred to countries outside the European Economic Area - the EU plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein - that do not have adequate protection for individual's personal information, unless a condition from Schedule four of the Act can be met Please note there is no direct mention of confidentiality, not the ridiculous one of only being able to look at information it for ten minute. Rant over

The library have replied to me again, I bet they are fed up with me LOL They insist that they are correct in their interpretation of the data protection. I have told them of this thread but their position is that everyone else is wrong. Either that or they think I'm lying through my teeth. I'm just glad they dont have what I am looking for anyway. Most people on old registers would either be dead or not at that same address anyway. I wont bother emailing them again. Margaret

Margaret I was told exactly the same thing at my County Library (someone took them to court blah blah). But I was trying to view CURRENT registers, not ancient ones, which were, I might add, always available to anyone as soon as they were published! Stupid, isnt it? I think lots of people, including local authorities, dont understand the Data Protection Act, and their default position is No, you cant look! Olde Crone

Hi Margaret, i have viewed them at Stoke on Trent (Hanley ) They have even given me detailes over the phone. Gill

Margaret - as I understand it, they are all available for inspection. However since the full and edited versions began in (I think) 2003, no one is allowed to photocopy the full register. Prior to 2003 you could and can. I know I get a copy of the full register in my capacity as a parish council clerk and there is always a very firm letter which accompanies it each year which points out that photocopies cannot be taken or the information shown to anyone, almost on pain of death!!!

Keep us informed Margaret - you might like to tell them that Cirencester Libraries understands the legislation, as they provided me with information under the Freedom of Information Act. nell

I've just had another email from the library. I wrote and told them that I thought their policy was ridiculous. This was before I put this thread on here, by the way. This is their comment: The policy regarding access to electoral registers is available on the County Council website (www.staffordshire.gov.uk) via the Library Facilities link. Whilst I might agree that the policy seems a little heavy handed in the case of earlier registers, these are the rules we are required to abide by. Most of the restrictions on the access to electoral registers in libraries came about as a result of a member of the public taking a council in Yorkshire to court for allowing a third party to make a copy of his details from the register. You are probably aware that the 2003 electoral register, which is available online, is the edited version, where individual may decide to withold their names if they so wish. The full version is very closely guarded and is now only available locally via the local council. I have just emailed again telling them that they have it wrong and that registers are available at other libraries and county record offices on open shelves without restriction. I await further claptrap from them. Margaret

Peter As I have said: They dont have what I want anyway. Margaret

Nothing whatsoever to do with Data Protection, they are just fobbing you off. The Data Protection Act concerns the use of data, believe it or not...! or computer records in other words.

Thank you for all your replies. If my local library even had the registers I wanted I would complain, but they dont. I need to travel to Stafford which I cant at the moment. I'm sure Stafford know what they are doing. Margaret

I've just come in from a visit to Ealing Central Library & there was no problem looking at any electoral registers -they were all on open shelves & I helped myself for as long as I wanted. Guess you were really unlucky. What a shame. Jacquie

There's only a 30 year closure on electoral registers in the library so you should be able to view anything up to 1975 freely. Janice

That's drivel. I actually got an e-mail reply back from a library giving details of an electoral roll from 1924 which I'd requested, and they had a format which explained they were providing the information under the 'Freedom of Information Act'. nell

I've had electoral rolls from 1950 onwards without any difficulty at my library. Think you just had bad luck with whom you spoke to. Snowdrops

I went to the West Susssex Records Office and they were most helpful. I ordered electoral registers from 1880-1940 and had all the time I needed to view them. Had I needed from 1941 onwards, there would have been no problem. Alan

Old Crone Just remembered, a few years ago I think it was when the 1901 census came out. The site crashed so I emailed the library to ask if they had it on microfiche. They said they didnt have them that old, just new ones!!!!!!!!!!!! I think the same person is still working there. LOL Margaret