Genealogy Chat

Grumpy Old Woman Re Paul's granny's records - strictly speaking they are not her records, or at least, not hers alone, as would be, say, her medical records. They name other people, whose privacy is being protected by the Freedom of Information Act - LOL! Paul - are you possibly being a bit hard on your Granny? There must have been a lot of women about who were fervently grateful to her. It is very unfortunate that one woman died, but women still die today having abortions, with all the medical expertise we have now. Her conviction had as much to do with the morality of the day, I dare say, as her crime. OC

My gran was killed in a road traffic accident in 1927 when my mum was 14. We (my siblings and I ) have always believed that she was killed by a tram. Last week I went to the library to view the local paper. I found the report of the inquest and it was quite lenghty. It turned out she had been killed by a '4 wheeled motor car, travelling at 15 miles per hour'. Apparently according to the report she had been enjoying some liquid refreshments prior to the accident. The name and address of the driver is in the article. It was quite sad really the coroner seemed more concerned about the feelings of the driver and very little was mentioned about my granddad and nothing whatsover about the eight children she left behind.He hit her with the side of his car and she sustained head injuries and several broken limbs, she died the next day without regaining consciousness. So if you can get hold of the paper which covered your granddads death you may find out what you want to know. Good luck. regards Margaret

I have tried the 'direct relative' approach but it was no use. Actually, strictly speaking I am not a relative as she adopted my father as a baby. Which I'm glad to say, as by all accounts she was a nasty piece of work. She died when I was an infant. And, yes, it was covered in the papers but no mention was made of other parties. I have no intention of doing so either, as I have no firm proof and I wouldn't like to fall foul of the libel laws, even though the person I mentioned is long since dead.

i thought that even though records are sealed, you can get information if you are a direct relative. Its worth asking.

Wow Paul that sounds like a cracking set of papers to read. Are you likely to be around then? Was there not anything about it in the papers at the time if it was that prominent? Or did they cover that up too? You must be sooooooo frustrated! Snowdrops

As a matter of fact, the records of my grandmother's trial for murder in 1943 were sealed for 50 years. 13 years ago I was able to view them at the Public Records Office and - guess what - many of the papers had been removed and sealed for another 50 years. I was astounded that such a decision should have been taken 50 years after the event, but the background could have some bearing. Although I was brought up to believe that she was a midwife she was in fact an abortionist who practiced her illegal trade with many people in London high society. Her arrest for murder was due to the death of one of her patients, but we now believe that she attempted to have her case thrown out by naming prominent individuals who had been clients or connected with clients. One of them I suspect went on to be the most important person in the Western hemisphere - no kidding. Not surprising then that the papers won't be available until 2043.

A big thankyou to you all for your comments and surgestions and letting me sound off. I am going to visit Catterick Garrison where granddad is buried. I am also going to send for his army records. His name is on the CWGC roll of honour. Will let you all know what happens in the next chapter! Thankyou again Vanessa

As you are the next of kin, then you can apply to the MOD in Glasgow for his service records. I did this for my father's, and I received them within a few weeks. Joy

These time delays are a real pain aren't they! I tried to get my grandmother's original birth registration, she was adopted. I found the listing for the baby I assumed was her, and applied for the certificate, to be told that it was subject to the adoption act and would not be released until 120 years after the event, or I could prove that all parties to the adoption were dead. At least that info proved I had the correct person. My grandmother was born in 1898, so you would imagine that she, her birth mother and adoptive parents would be dead by now. Even both her children are now dead. But that is not proof! I have her death info, her adoptive parents death info, but how do I prove her birth mother is dead when they will not tell me who she is!!!!!!! So I also wait until 2018! Christine in NZ

Snow Drop. Just got back from another night of slog.(work). If i can get all the waffle i will be onto a winner!! I have spoken to my cousin who`s mother is the only living rellie(sister) of my granddad. She says my grandmother had to fight for her pension!! He joined the army in 1919 when he was 16years old. What a way to treat people. My cousin has done a brilliant job of doing the family tree in novel form. Thomas (granddad) was a professional soldier. He won the military cross for driving a petrol tanker out of a camp in Palistine. Then another one while under attack from Arabs. His last case(HEE!HEE!) was to go into Norway and help bring our boys home to freedom! He suffered servere frostbite and was hospitallised. The rest is on the death certificate. I wish i had known him. Vanessa

You might be clutchinhg at straws but what a good spy story it would make if it were true!! Snowdrops

I`ve just had a thought!! I may be wrong and being silly but could the fact that his family were RUSSIAN have anything to do with it? I may have read too many spy novels but this could be one explaination. NAH!!!! Pulling at straws now. HEE!!HEE!!HEE!! Vanessa

Ann. I am on a mission now!! I will explore all the proper channels etc. Then if i get no joy i will look at what other avenues i can take. It is dumb to deny family the right to see what happened to their kin. I do understand the need for care etc but like you say, he died in 1940 and all this red tape is only fuelling my mind as to what was so sensitive to be put out of our reach. The so called course of death is on his death certificate so why hide anything else? Anyway, i will plod on and see what i can uncover. First call is to get his army records. That is providing they are not tied up in RED TAPE. Vanessa

Thanks Micheal. It may be worth my while doing that if all else fails. I will also look on the site you have pasted on to me. Thanks again everyone for letting me sound off!! Vanessa

One thing you could try is applying for his service record from the Ministry of Defence. If you are his next of kin (and even if you're not, just send a letter from someone who is authorising you to get the information) you can send off the current fee (it's pretty steep, about £35 I think) and you usually need to actually send a copy of the death cert. as well I think, but if you have all this info, then they have to send you it. It might not help with the cause of death, but could be worth ordering. There's a bit about the subject here: http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/service_recs/service_recs.htm Army Personnel Centre, Historical Disclosures, Mail Point 400, Kentigern House, 65 Brown Street, Glasgow, G2 8EX Or is that who you have been trying?

Thanks for those web sites Athena. I will go through them this weekend.( work commitments first). Vanessa

Here are a few website that might come in handy...(remove brackets) www[.]leeds[.]gov.uk (click on 'L' - click on 'Local History' for a list of services that include archived newspapers 'Local Newspapers and Periodicals The library holds microfilm copies of all the major Leeds newspapers including the Yorkshire Post and its fore-runner the Leeds Intelligencer,the Leeds Mercurywhich merged with the Yorkshire Post in 1939, the Yorkshire Evening Post, and Yorkshire Evening News.') www[.]leedslocalindex.net/ (oh my gosh - they've pinched my nickname!!)

Hell Micheal what else is covered in RED TAPE? Just got off the phone with the coroners office and they are in the same RED TAPE area as the Archives!!! BUM! BUM! BUM! Sorry that is the only polite way of sounding off i can think of on here. The next step is Glasgow. Vanessa

You should think yourself lucky. I went after school records relating to my mum, thinking that a 30 year rule applied, only to find out that it is a 75 year rule, but a 75 year rule from the last entry in the registers, which means that if I fancy booking an appointment, I can turn up on January 1st 2061 and they might let me have a look!! I fared no better looking for my grandmas school records from the 1930s, but at least I might still be alive in 2021 to still care!! It can be very frustrating this hobby!!

Thank you for that info Micheal. I will have to be patient then? Sorry, red flag to the bull with me!! So angry!!! I will have a chat with Glasgow and see if they can release his records of service and then maybe there will be some form of info there. Vanessa