Genealogy Chat

head still cabbaged from visit to dentist. numbness just wearing off but brain still numb . have a great time on the beach love linda x

Household 2 is headed by Mary's elder bro, who reverted to the name France between 1861 and 1871 Household 3 is headed by his brother (or maybe half brother, depending of whether they had the same father - though Thomas Corner is called ''Father'' in household 2) Household one is brother-in-law, (or half bro-in-law) and his wife. She is sister or half sister to the other two heads. Off to the beach now! Merry

now can you help me !! this is 1881 census and these are 3 families living next door to each other household number 1 Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability John SHARROCK Head M Male 33 Everton, Lancashire, England Coal Miner Mary SHARROCK Wife M Female 33 Aspull, Lancashire, England Elizabeth FRANCE Daur Female 11 Aspull, Lancashire, England Scholar Ann SHARROCK Daur Female 7 Aspull, Lancashire, England Scholar Henry SHARROCK Son Male 6 Aspull, Lancashire, England Scholar Richard SHARROCK Son Male 2 Aspull, Lancashire, England Mary SHARROCK Daur Female 11 m Westleigh, Lancashire, England John CORNER Boarder U Male 27 Aspull, Lancashire, England Coal Miner household number 2 Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Richard FRANCE Head M Male 35 Aspull, Lancashire, England Pit Contractor (Coal) Elizabeth FRANCE Wife M Female 41 Aspull, Lancashire, England Samuel FRANCE Son Male 8 Aspull, Lancashire, England Scholar William FRANCE Son Male 7 Aspull, Lancashire, England Scholar Thomas CORNER Father W Male 55 Blackrod, Lancashire, England Coal Pit Lab household number 3 Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability William CORNER Head M Male 31 Aspull, Lancashire, England Coal Mine Contractor Jane CORNER Wife M Female 30 Aspull, Lancashire, England Beatrice E. CORNER Daur Female 5 Aspull, Lancashire, England Scholar Mary CORNER Daur Female 3 Aspull, Lancashire, England Annie CORNER Daur Female 1 Westleigh, Lancashire, England i am still having trouble sorting out the corners and the frances HELP HELP HELP PLEASE !!!! love linda x x

big thanks to you all. i have just got back from having a tooth out and i dont know what was worse the extraction or the £45 i had to pay. so i am feeling very sorry for myself. the france/corner problem is a real headache . i think i will have to send for marys birth and hope that is the right one big thanks to you all love linda x x x

The 1849 married is showing as Thomas Gomer everywhere I look, but It's easy to see how the name Corner and Gomer could easily be mistaken for each other. I just looked to see if there's a Thomas Gomer on the 1851 census recently married and living in Lancs. There isn't!! Merry

Thanks for looking at that Kate......... Maybe if Lindy wants Mary's birth cert she should order it with checking point of mum's name? Just in case that isn't her? Merry

Hmmm, not sure after looking at the map. They are closeish. I suppose they might share a boundary. Anyway, if you could get a look at the parish registers for Aspull maybe you would find baptisms for Richard and Mary jr. which might help. Hope the trip to the dentist's isn't too bad! Kate.

Merry, if that is her birth registration then it doesn't look as though it was registered in the Aspull sub-district: CORNER Mary Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/8/373 But I will have to look at a map to see if Hindley and Aspull are close to each other as I have no knowledge of the geography of that area! Kate.

Hope the dentist goes OK! Summary..... 1846 Richard born and registered as France (1845 Q4 Wigan 21 779) 1848 Mary born and registered as Corner, but parents not married 1849 parents, Mary France and Thomas Corner marry 1851 all kids have name Corner 1861 all kids have name Corner 1871 Richard (b 1846) and Mary (b 1848) have reverted to the name France (ie their mum's maiden name) 1872 Mary gets married to John Sharrock, using the surname France 1881 Mary is Sharrock, brother Richard is still France. Have a panadol! Merry

Just checking Lancashire BMD for births while waiting for the 'Gomer' image to load: Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1845 FRANCE Richard Aspull Wigan & Leigh ASPL/5/282 But annoyingly, I can't see a Mary in 1848 or 1849, and there are a few other Frances in Aspull, so not certain if this Richard is the right one, but worth a try anyway. As for 'Gomer', that is definitely what it says on the image of the GRO index, but perhaps it was copied out wrong! Kate.

Oh, well done Kate! I bet that is them...... So Mary and her older brother, Richard were born before their parents marriage and used the name France when they grew up. It looks as if Mary was registered as a Corner though!! Births Mar 1848 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CORNER Mary Wigan 21 790 Merry

thanks everyone i am off to the dentist now i have to have a tooth ou OUCH !! i will catch up later anything anyone finds would be most apreciated. i just need to get it straight in my head then i can record it . who is who and who married who etcc.. love linda x x

And do you already have this (from Lancashire BMD)? Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1849 FRANCE Mary GORNER Thomas St. David,Haigh Wigan & Leigh C14/1/269 And this is the FreeBMD entry: Marriages Sep 1849 France Mary Wigan 21 629 Gomer Thomas Wigan 21 629 The surname has been transcribed as 'Gomer' by two different transcribers, but I will look at the image to check. Anyway, that does suggest that Mary jr. would have been born before the marriage. Kate.

It looks like Mary's elder brother, Richard, is also using the surname France in 1871.....but his younger two brothers, who are living in his house, are not...... Joseph Corner abt 1852 Aspull, Lancashire, England Brother Aspull Lancashire William Corner abt 1850 Aspull, Lancashire, England Brother Aspull Lancashire Elizabeth France abt 1840 Aspull, Lancashire, England Wife Aspull Lancashire James France abt 1869 Aspull, Lancashire, England Son Aspull Lancashire Jane France abt 1870 Aspull, Lancashire, England Daughter Aspull Lancashire >>>>>Richard France abt 1836 Aspull, Lancashire, England Head Aspull Lancashire Merry

can you see what i mean i dont understand this one at all OOH my head hurts and i have to go to the dentist !! love linda x x ps if her parents never married then why is her older brother called corner and she is france ?

Don't know if this helps at all, but this is the family in 1851: View Record Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image View Record Mary Conner abt 1828 Adlington, Lancashire, England Wife Aspull Lancashire View Record Mary Conner abt 1848 Aspull, Lancashire, England Daughter Aspull Lancashire View Record Richard Conner abt 1846 Aspull, Lancashire, England Son Aspull Lancashire View Record Thomas Conner abt 1826 Blackrod, Lancashire, England Head Aspull Lancashire View Record William Conner abt 1850 Aspull, Lancashire, England Son Aspull Lancashire View Record Richard France abt 1793 Blackrod, Lancashire, England Father-in-law Aspull Lancashire Kate.

I think you will find on the image that there is no mention of the surname Corner for Mary in 1871. The transcription has it, but it's not on the page. Just says ''Mary France Gran (crossed through) Daur'' I did wonder if Mary's parents were not married when she was born, so technically she was not a Corner, but a France. I have been surprised how often people DIDN'T lie about these things in some families. One of mine pretended to be married for 42 years, but when the ''wife'' died, her daughter still registered mum's death in mum's ''maiden'' name!! I couldn't find a marriage for Thomas Corner to Mary France (ie Mary France/Corner's parents) Merry

Hi Linda Do you think it's possible John married and Elizabeth is his daugther? Maybe his wife died and he lived with Mary? Marriage John Sharrock to Mary France Name: John Sharrock Year of Registration: 1872 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Wigan County: Greater, Manchester, Lancashire Volume: 8c Page: 163 (click to see others on page) BIRTHS Martha Elizabeth France 1870 Oct-Nov-Dec Wigan Greater, Manchester, Lancashire View Record Mary Elizabeth France 1870 Jan-Feb-Mar West Derby Lancashire Purely speculation Death Elizabeth France abt 1849 1872 Jul-Aug-Sep Wigan Greater, Manchester, Lancashire Yvonne

hi merry thanks i noticed too that in 1871 her name is mary france corner ? would they have had double barrel names in a working class are of lancashire in 1871 ? love linda x

In 1871 when she seemed to be called France and had her daughter Elizabeth, Mary was still recorded as Unmarried. Merry