Genealogy Chat

Thanks Peter! Allie

1. there are gaps on free bmd for parts of the 1850's and 1860's so you need to check the images. 2. changing age syndrome is rife, however the younger the age you can corroborate, the more accurate it is likely to be. i.e. if a child is 5, then the age could only be out by a year, not five years. For someone who is 50 it could well be out by 5 years and no one would know. 3. marriage ages are notoriously wrong, partucularly if there is an age gap . This is worse where the woman is older than the man. 4. most missing census enrties are down to mistrancriptions. This is not just confined by errors made by the modern day indexers. I came accros one recently where the surname 'Lilley' actually appeared on the page as 'Cater' Obviously the enumerator got his papers mixed up. It was only yhe address and christian names that allowed us to confirm it was the correct family. 5. use occupations to eliminate those that are unlikely. e.g. a labourer in 1871 is unlikely to be a doctor on the next census. Look for related trades, or someone rising up the ladder. Hotel Porter and Waiter looks promising.

Thanks Ann Yes this is the one - she is MARY ANN LEATT. I don't know where the FREER bit came in George's name (sometimes FROER) but there you are! Think I'll just have to go with the 1866 date.( Brother GEORGE W baptised at the same time I think) Possibly the only cert JOHN had when he married was his baptism one so went with this date of 1870 for his age! People not so fussed then about their true DOB obviously! Cheers Allie

Hi Ann I have seen this one, but THINK it is stretching the birth date too far! Still I'll have another look! Cheers Allie

Hello Jean Thanks for the encouragement! Think yours is worse than mine! Hope it turns out to be the right one when the cert arrives! Cheers Allie

Hi A. It's June 3rd 1894 St Mary - le- Strand Mx. wife ALICE EMILY GINN Cheers A

Allie, you're not on your own, so don't despair. My Samuel Ingleby was on the census born 1859 Married in 1906 age 35 (born 1871) Buried in (on his headstone) 1930 age 62 (born 1868) I can't find a birth, am now waiting for a cert for someone called Samuel Hinsley which is the only one I could find same date, place etc. and nearly the same name. After looking for a couple of years. I've been going to pack in a couple of times as all the people I seem to find as family, disappear after one census. Jean

Sorry, Allie - what year is the marriage cert for that you have?

Thanks Athena Got me thinking now - I usually do look at names transposed, but worth another try anyway! Allie

Allie John may have been his middle name...have you looked for other names of Somerville births for that area e.g. could have been Charles John and for some reason name was transposed after birth being registered. Just a thought...

Hi Debbie and Athena! Yes I do have the family on the 1861. And yes, the occupation fits as well. Unfortunately, father GEORGE was deceased on the marriage cert so no occupation (other than being dead!) was there! Just 'place of birth Scotland'. JOHN's baptism was at St Andrew's Holborn (I found it somewhere!) The connection with the hotel trade is good also, as JOHN (my Gt Grandfather) worked as a cook (hotel cook on my G'dad's birth cert). Thanks all Allie ps Just thought of something else - JOHN is described as a 'widower' on his marriage cert but have been unable to find a previous marriage for him. He is definitely an awkward customer.

john somerville hampstead 1a 528 Dec 1865. the Charles could have been added later..??

Allie What year did he marry? And what occupation is on the marriage cert for him? Re the 1871 family you found - I think this is the father, George, on the 1861 Census with his family (note the name Isabella of his sister - he named a child that). They were living at Staple Inn Buildings, Finsbury and George's occupation was Waiter (which kind of fits in with the 1871 occupation of Hotel porter). George Somerville abt 1842 Scotland Son Holborn St Andrew Middlesex Hugh Somerville abt 1845 Scotland Son Holborn St Andrew Middlesex Isabella Somerville abt 1840 Scotland Daughter Holborn St Andrew Middlesex Jane Somerville abt 1812 Scotland Head Holborn St Andrew Middlesex

Hi, Have you checked Scottish records? If his dad was from Scotland maybe thay lived there for a while and that's why he's not on English census......Could he have been born there?? I had an ancestor that was baptised twice - once where they were born and also in London...Don't know why though!! Deb

hiya Julie Course I don't mind the suggestion! I THINK I looked the alternative spellings up a while back, but it's worth another try! Thanks Allie

hiya allie, i dont want to appear a know it all, but have you looked in index under different spellings? ie summervill(e)? it may hold the clue, if those pages are missing then i'd ask for an 1837 lookup, if someone has a spare credit or two Julie

Hiya Julie Yes I'm coming to that conclusion also. If only I could find him on the birth index! Wouldn't you know it but there is a huge chunk out of the index containing the name SOMERVILLE (on Ancestry) for one of the years I've been looking at to try and find him - typical!!!!! Can't find a death for him either...... Anyway, think I'll just give the Aunts what I have and hope that it's right! Cheers Allie

hiya allie, i would go with the census, and you seem to have already found the likely candidate,(the one with the dad being born in scotland.) It wasnt that uncommon to have either bride or groom lie about their age, sometimes it was thought better to fib and have an age near to bride, as was in your case, and in mine come to think of it LOL, perhaps he didnt want people thinking he was an older man, or perhaps he'd lied to the brides parents saying he was same/similar age, this is something we just wont know, all we can do is speculate, Julie

Thanks Ann It was OC who didn't know where St Giles was! (I've been there so many times!) I've also had this prob with this area of London - sometimes it's Holborn, sometimes St Mary-le-Strand etc. Should I just accept that this is the right person do you think? Thanks also to Julie That's encouraging about the marriage cert! Allie

There is this entry on the 1881 CENSUS: John C. Somerville abt 1861 St Martins Son St Giles in the Fields London Mary Ann Somerville abt 1831 St Martins Head St Giles in the Fields London They were living in Endell Street, Finsbury and it says John was a House Painter. Could that be him with his widowed mother? Does the mother's name match up with the 1871 census? (haven't checked it myself).