Genealogy Chat

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My grandmother married as Hannah Jane Harris in 1892 and died aged 70 in 1942, also as Hannah Jane. The 1891 and 1901 censuses also point to an 1871/1872 birth date, place of birth, Hackney. There is no Hannah Jane Harris in the GRO index around that time. However, passed down in family papers is a birth certificate for Jane Macey, born November 1871 to Charles Macey and Elizabeth, nee Crawley. She was born at 4 Middle Street. The certificate was obtained in 1936, when she would have just turned 65. On the censuses from 1861 to 1891 a Harris family lived at 4 Middle Street, head Charles, wife Jane. I have recently obtained their marriage certificate from 1846 and Jane’s maiden name was Crawley. The Harrises show a daughter Jane in 1881 and 1891, her age would correspond to Jane Macey. I suspect that Jane Macey was brought up by the Harrises but have run out of ideas to prove or disprove that. I need fresh ideas, please. I've been bashing my head on this ever since I started 3 years ago.

Is it possible that Jane Macey was the Harris's grandaughter? Did they have a daughter of the right age, who may have married Mr Macey and both subsequently died, leaving the Grandparents to bring her up? If not, she was born rather a long time after they married, wasnt she? UPDATE Doh! She was their niece, of course! Her parents died and the Harrises brought her up...she used their name out of respect! Have you looked for Macey deaths? OC

The Harrises had a daughter Elizabeth who would have been about the right age. BUT, if she had married Charles Macey her maiden name on Jane's birth certificate would have been Harris, not Crawley. Elizabeth Harris was born 1847/8, after the Harris/Crawley marriage, so would have been registered Harris, not Crawley. I have tried to locate two Crawley sisters on the 1841 census, on the aunt theory, but they do not appear together. Jane Crawley's father was Joseph, a tailor when she married in 1846.

No, Jane Crawley and Elizabeth Crawley were sisters (probably). Bet ElizabethCrawley/Macey died and her sister Jane Harris brought her up. OC

OC's theory seems good. Jane can't have married Mr Harris in 1846 though.......she would have been too young, if the 1881 census is anything to go by! Merry

The 1881 household (for ref) Charles HARRIS Head M Male 50 Limehouse, Middlesex, England Labourer Genl Jane HARRIS Wife M Female 45 Hertford, England Washerwoman William HARRIS Son U Male 16 Schackewell, Middlesex, England Shop Boy (Man) Jane HARRIS Daugh U Female 10 Schackewell, Middlesex, England Scholar Ada HARRIS Daugh U Female 8 Schackewell, Middlesex, England Scholar Eliza HARRIS Daugh U Female 3 Schackewell, Middlesex, England Elizabeth HARRIS Daugh U Female 10 m Schackewell, Middlesex, England Jane STREET Lodger W Female 75 Buckingham, England None Was A Servt at 4 Middle St. Merry

Charles may have remarried, but to another Jane: I believe that in 1851 they were in Edmonton and Jane, the wife was 25 born Hertfordshire. In 1861she was 31, born Ware, Herts. In 1871 she was 44 born London. In 1881 she was 45, born Hertford. In 1891 Charles was a widower. Trouble is, there are dozens of Jane Harris deaths. On the 1891 census the youngest child is 10, so born 1881, when the original Jane would have been around 50!

WEll, you could go for one of the younger children's birth certs, to see what the mother's maiden name was and then look for a marriage if it isnt Crawley. Do you have the Macey marriage, to tell you what Elizabeth's father was called? That could sort out whether they were sisters, or cousins etc. OC

I have looked for the Macey/Crawley marriage, but no luck so far. The latter child birth certificate is a good idea though, thanks for the thought, I'm going brain dead on this one.

My crystal ball tells me Brian can't find a Macey/Crawley marriage! Brian, I have a brick wall ''Elizabeth Crawley'' on my tree you can have, if you like. Hubby had a brick wall with his Maceys, so maybe he has a spare one, knocking about somewhere? Merry

Oops, my crystal ball isn't working quickly enough! Merry

Because I urgently need new spex, I read the names first off as Hacey and Cranley...just an idea. OC

Hi I have Crawley familt members from the stepney area, when looking for them on the census' a few of them were mistranscribed as Crowley just a thought K x

Sorry maybe i am missing something but who did Hannah Jane have down as her father on her marriage cert in 1892 and who were her marriage witnesses

She put her father as Charles Harris, Brick Maker. (He described himself as a Brick Maker when he married Jane Crawley) The witnesses were Alfred Worboys, Cabinet maker, (groom's father) and Elizabeth Adams (unidentified).

On the 1871 birth cert for Jane Macey, what is Charles Macey's occupation? (and please don't say labourer!!!) Merry

Ground labourer, I'm afraid. (Must get off to work now)

Naughty Brian! Kids to school and then supermarket run..........see you a lot later! Merry

1891 census; Charles 64 widower, Mangler, Limehouse Jane 19, daughter, washerwoman Ada, 16 daughter Eliza 13 daughter Annie 10 daughter All daughters born Hackney