Genealogy Chat

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Rather than appending this to Mo’s thread about Coathouses / Cotehouses (which seems to have been solved), I thought it best to start a new one for this question. I have a will, dated 1585, for Alice Parrett of Cornworthy in Devon, which includes the following bequests: “I give to my goddaughter Alice Efforde one Daye hogge … I give to Englishe Blanck one daye hogge and three shillinges foure pence” Does anyone know (or can anyone guess) what a ‘daye hogge’ might be? My first thought was that it referred to some sort of a pig, although after some research I found the terms “lamb hogge” and “ewe hogge” used to describe sheep of certain ages (these were used in other wills from the same general time period). I doubt, though, that anyone would be given a day-old lamb, would they? I’ve puzzled over this for the past 2 or 3 years, and it was only after reading Mo’s thread that I thought about asking you clever folks. BTW, I’m at work right now, so I may not always be able to respond to questions immediately. Thanks all – Tim

Well it cant be a day old animal, unless they knew a day old animal would be alive when they died so Im reckoning it may be some form of money. Unless its a general term for a piglet or something? Olde Crone will come along and tell us.

I believe that a lambe hogge is a male lamb - not sure how that helps ... Will of Nicholas Blackwell, 29 Oct 1621 Nicholas Blackwell of Clapton. Son John Blackwell of Tichmarshe 16 pounds. Son Thomas Blackwell 20 pounds. Eldest dau Elizabeth Blackwell 20 marke in mony, second daughter Margerite 20 markes. Both daus to get their money at age 21 or marriage. To John Blackwell’s boys each of them a lambe hogge. Henry Grey one lamb. William Blackwell my sister Katherine’s sonne on lamb.

*tiny voice* I dont know. But - my dictionary says that hogg is an archaic term (dialect) for a sheep before its first shearing - did it mean 'the next sheep to be born nearest my death'. Um - couldnt be 'dead hogge' could it? OC

from what i can gather -this particular reference relates to a a days meal- a hogge pot was a stew of various ingredients and is the origination of hotch potch or similar ie a mix.....it may relate here to a days feed ?

It's listed before the three shillings so possibly something worth having? **Olde Crone doesn't know?***

Well Nell, what can you say - but Im having me doubts now about her qualifications - has anyone actually seen her Masters in Norman French?

My Masters in Norman French was self awarded. OC

That would explain the 'doo-dah' reference then.

it's alright.....I just checked my trusty dictionary: doo-dah - [archaic - Norman french] A diacritical mark (^) placed above a vowel in some languages to indicate a special phonetic quality. Merry

Merry - put me out of my misery please - what is the correct word for doo dah? I know accents, I know circonflex - but I have forgotten what the doodah is really called! (I will award you a first class honours in Middle English if you tell me) OC

Thank you all for your thoughts. I suspect that the term ‘hogge’ probably does refer to a lamb, since there are other bequests that include sheep and wool. Heather, I’m equally shocked that OC doesn’t know – I sometimes think that she’s really immortal and remembers all of her genealogy first-hand.( By the way, that’s meant in a respectful and admiring way, not as a comment on her screen name.) These old wills are a lot of fun, both for the challenge of deciphering them (not just the handwriting, but the same word spelled different ways, and random capitalizations) and for the clues they give about our ancestors lives. I also have a will for Alice’s husband, John, from 1583, but his contains mainly monetary bequests. Alice’s, on the other hand, is more concerned with household items (cooking utensils, furniture, linens, etc…) which I find much more interesting. Tim

Sorry.....that was the definition of a circumflex which is what I thought you were talking about!! Did you mean a cidilla?? Squiggly thing as in garcon <<<under the C ççç <<<<<those!?? Merry (who wasn't even entered for O level french - the first girl in the school!)

Acute / and grave goes the other way, also cedilla the 5 thing under a C and ' umlaut

The upside down V is the circumflex.

Sorry for corrupting your thread, Tim! I don't know what the term refers to except for sheep under one year or a pig...... but maybe one daye you will find out!!???? Merry

Let's not forget the tilde ~~~ Tim

Ive not had a will that old, Id love to get one. My earliest so far is only early 19th century. Though I have discovered a fruitful line of my dads in sussex who seem to have been loaded and have lot of early wills. A chap who is connected to them has all these and has promised to send me scans - but they have not arrived yet. I WAS thinking of commissioning olde crone but well ..................having put her on a very high pedestal .............but I suppose she is still retains a god like position compared to us lesser mortals.

Merry - No apologies needed - my name's not Ed! Tim