Genealogy Chat

Details coming.........

My nan's birth cert (Eliza Elizabeth Ayres) states mother Louisa Ayres, formerly Bradford - father is George Ayres (dated 1887) Her birth cert to Berty Gritton states her name as Elizabeth Anstead. Sister is Rebecca Louisa Anstead (dated 1895) mother is Louisa Anstead, formerly Bradford - father George Anstead. There is another sister called 'Julia Anstead' (abt 1879-1880) who I can find no birth for, but who marries my grandad's brother Arthur Gritton. I cannot find Louisa Bradford marrying anyone called Ayres or Anstead, however: 1874 - Louisa Cooper -m- George Anstead 1882 - Louisa Landon Cooper -m- Frank Ayres 1887 - Louisa Cooper -m- Frederick Ayres The marriage cert of Louisa Cooper & George Ayres puts her as a 'minor' and him of full age. Louisa Anstead is 40 when she dies in 1898. I have spent ages on this, and just can't get past it. What do you think is going on. Really appreciate any opinions or suggestions. Thanks

I'm a touch confused (not unusual!!) Your nan is Eliza Elizabeth Ayres and her BC shows mother of Louisa Ayres, formerly Bradford and father of George Ayres. I'm guessing this is her birth Births Sep 1887 AYRES Eliza Elizabeth St. Geo. East 1c 369 You say 'Her birth cert to Berty Gritton states her name as Elizabeth Anstead.' Do you mean her MARRIAGE certificate?? What year do you have Louisa Cooper and George Ayres marrying?

So, Louisa's children are in chronological order: 1879-1880 Julia Anstead - you cannot find her birth. She marries Arthur Gritton [is this Berty's brother and should it be Berty's marriage cert rather than birth cert on which Elizabeth Anstead appears?] 1887 Eliza Elizabeth Ayres mother: Louisa Ayres, formerly Bradford. Father George Ayres. Same daughter says she is Elizabeth Anstead on Berty Gritton's birth cert (who is he? and when was this? Do you mean a birth cert or a marriage cert?] 1895 Rebecca Louisa Anstead mother Louisa Anstead, formerly Bradford. Father George Anstead. You haven't found Louisa Bradford marriage to any Ayres or Anstead. 1874 - Louisa Cooper -m- George Anstead 1882 - Louisa Landon Cooper -m- Frank Ayres 1887 - Louisa Cooper -m- Frederick Ayres 1898 Louisa Anstead dies aged 40. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My first thought is that there are unusually big gaps for that time between the births of the daughters. Most of my relatives have children every 18 months to 3 years. There's 6 or 7 years between Julia and Eliza and 8 years between Eliza and Rebecca. Secondly, what does it say in father's column on the marriage certs for these daughters? What occupation does it have for him and what is George Ayres/George Anstead's occupation on the birth certs? I'm off to have a look at the census now, to see if that sheds any light.

1901 16 Winterton Bldgs, St George in the East, Stepney, London. Registration district: St George in the East Sub-registration district: St George North George Anstead 48 general labourer [another word after this which I can't read, but could be docks as there are other dock workers on the page] widower b Whitechapel Julia Anstead 22 daur charwoman housework at home b. St Geo. E. Eliza Anstead 13 daur b. St Geo. E. Rebecca Anstead 5 daur b. St Geo. E. Emma Anstead 1 daur b. St Geo. E. Eliza is not listed as Ayres.

1891 I can only find one George Anstead with wife Louisa, but he is a shoemaker living in St Marylebone and none of the children are called Julia. He also gives his birthplace as Buckinghamshire. nell

1891 No Julia Anstead born within 5 years of 1879 in index.

hi , is this them , 1901 census st george london George Anstead age 48 widower Eliza , Rebecca ,Julia and Emma.

Hm. Without finding Julia with her mother in 1881 or 1891 we can't get Louisa Bradford/Anstead/Ayres birthplace to find her on earlier censuses.

OK Without Julia's birth cert you do not know that Louisa was her mother. Perhaps the scenario is Louisa whatever her name was had a child called Eliza Ayres by a man called George Ayres. George died. Louisa met George Anstead who was a widower with a daughter called Julia. George and Louisa had a child together - Rebecca Anstead - before Louisa died. nell

Yes sorry, my error it should be marriage cert, not birth cert. The occupation of George Anstead on the marriage cert to Louisa Cooper is, Bootmaker and the residence just says Marlebone for them both. George Anstead's father is Edwin Anstead, a Carman. Louisa Cooper's father is George Cooper (deceased) a House Painter. I have found Anstead's from Great Marlow in Bucks, boot and shoe makers. Edwin (1813) and Mary Ann (1814) are on a couple of census, but non showing a George. I found a Louisa Cooper aged 11 on the 1871 census in an assylum for fatherless children in Croydon. Of course that would only put her at 13 or 14 should she be the Louisa that married George Anstead in 1874. So, it can't be her can it ? I am waiting for the marriage certs for Louisa Cooper to both Frederick & Frank Ayres - been waiting 3 weeks now!! Jeanne

Jools, I don't have Louisa Cooper marrying George Ayres - only George Anstead.

Ahh - thought you did as you said 'The marriage cert of Louisa Cooper & George Ayres puts her as a 'minor' and him of full age.'

If you look at my previous entries you will see I found a George Anstead bootmaker, born Bucks, living Marylebone with wife Louisa in 1891 census. But I am sure this isn't right as none of his details match those of George Anstead in 1901. Plus, all the daughters were born in St Geo East which is a distinctly different area from St Marylebone, several miles apart and a different social mix. nell

UPDATE - WE'VE RULED THIS FAMILY OUT AS BEING THE WRONG ONE. Long shot here, but could this be George in 1881 (ages of children would tie in with a marriage to Louisa in 1874) George ANSTEAD Head M Male 27 Great Marlow, Buckingham, England Boot Maker Louisa ANSTEAD Wife M Female 26 Marylebone Amelia ANSTEAD Daur Female 6 Marylebone Lydia ANSTEAD Daur Female 4 Marylebone Maude ANSTEAD Daur Female 1 Marylebone Source Information: Dwelling 78 Boston Pl Census Place London, Middlesex, England Family History Library Film 1341034 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0155 / 66 Page Number 16

hi just found a death for louisa Anstead in 1898 st george london, birth 1858.

Helen I keep coming back to same theory. I have been through the entries at the FRC from 1855 to 1865 for her birth and the only possibility turned out not to be her. Try: 1881 - Hunsted 1891 - Henstead What do you think about Julia actually being Louisa's sister ? Jeanne

Hi Jools The trouble with that family, is that Louisa is still alive in 1901 and mine died in 1898 at the Raine Street Workhouse Infirmary. Jeanne

What evidence do you have that Julia is Eliza's sister? As I said before, you only have the 1901 evidence which fits what you have listed from the certs. You might find all kinds of marriages in the index, but I'd want to sort out the children first. 1901 clearly states that George is father to all the children. Now, he may be Eliza's father too, in which case her cert should state George Anstead not George Ayres and she should have Anstead as surname. But she could equally be his step-daughter and just listed as daughter under his surname because that's what lots of folk did in those days. You have no proof that Louisa was married to George Anstead or George Ayres or anyone else, just that she appears as a married woman on Eliza and Rebecca;s birth certs. Again, you have nothing to connect George Ayres or George Anstead other than their christian names. I am quite convinced that the Marylebone lot are red herrings. A shoe/boot maker from Bucks in 1891 living in a relatively posh area doesn't become a labourer born in Whitechapel living in a poorer area in 1901. nell

Nell - you've convinced me that 1881 lot I found are red herrings. If you look at the 81 and 91 for hensted and hunstead, it looks to me like Julia 1880 =Louisa 1880. What do you think?