Genealogy Chat

Thanks ,I think i'll do that.I found that Births and stillborns need to be registerd within 42 days and deaths need to be registerd within 5 days.

Hi Donna,

* you know
- the date and place of Joseph William's birth
- and that Joseph William was not a stillbirth.

* Births must be registered within six weeks.

So, would it be not be possible to have a search done at the local registry office, of all births - starting with the date of the birth - for a child born at that address?

Victoria

I have iust read though this fascinating thread! I never knew that a mother could use any name she chose to register a birth. You have given me food for thought and I'm off to re-try for those birth entries I've not been able to find. I hope you manage to find what you're looking for Donna - and thanks!

Thanks for your reply.
An interesting point. I had already checked under mothers maiden name and found nothing.I will go and check under grandmothers name now.
On the other subject of your name change. That happend to my Dad and his siblings,which made it difficult to trace in the beginning. His birth cert doesn't have his mother's real maiden name, but a totally different one. He and his older brother have The name PALMER, two of his siblings have DAY,next COTTON and the last twoo have her real maiden name of PICKIN. Very strange they all have the same father Pellling. I think these names must have beeen taken from my dad's grandmother. Maybe each time she remarried her daughter would change her name.
This is what makes it so interesting .

Hi Donna
This is an absolute long shot but have you checked the births under the grandmother's maiden name? (mother's mother) or any other family name that runs through her family.
It's not illegal to change your name so long as it's not for illegal purposes.
My mother changed her name to her mother's maiden name and I am registered under that name. If anyone was doing a family tree on us I do not exist in that family.
I would imagine in order to place a child in an institution you would need an official certificate.
People go to extraordinary lengths to cover up family secrets.
Your grandfather may not be the father of the child but may have 'stood by' his wife on the proviso that the child was adopted or placed elsewhere.
Just my thoughts and Good Luck with your search.
Cheers Gerry

Today my mum and i took a visit to Dukinfield cemetery. A very kind man in the office helped with our search. We looked in every possible book they had and found nothing. We searched from 1939-1943.My mum's brother was Joseph William Wray born 25 /9/1940 at home at home 1 Brunswick street Dukinfield Cheshire. I even know which doctor the family would have had. My mum was only 4 or 5 at the time and was told that her mum Florence Wray had had a baby boy and that he had died shortly after. My mum was sent to stay with her grandmother for a while. I now believe that he didn't die after all. There was no record of him ,not even on the stillborn register .

What would be the procedure for have him PUT AWAY as they say?
Where would that be?

Interesting that before my grandfather died he destroyed a bag with all family certificates and documents in it.
I think he was hiding a secret that he was ashamed of.
If anyone can shed any light on this subject or give me some further advice i would appreciate it.
Thankyou.

Donna, If the baby was buried and you know the cemetery you should phone the cemeteries office that deals with that cemetery.(it will be on the Cheshire records site. They will have a record of which grave he is in even though it isn't marked in his name. The lady at the cemeteries office I contacted was extremely helpful and explained that babies who died only a few days or a few weeks old were sometimes buried with someone else being buried that day, or, put into a public grave. I found out where my dad's baby sister was buried that way. Good luck. Olivia

Just as an aside, even if he had been adopted (which he wasn't) his birth would still have been registered in his birth name. Post adoption, he would have been registered in his new name on the Adopted Children Register, not the birth register. Liz

Thankyou Christine in Portugal.You have been busy.Thankyou to everyone who took the time to post a reply.I will try and find an answer.

Here are some Wray births between 1933 and 43 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference WRAY Barbara Dorothy Stockport Third Stockport ST3/37/70 WRAY Doreen Ashton Town Tameside AST/217/29 WRAY Jack Ashton Town Tameside AST/215/37 WRAY John Ashton Town Tameside AST/215/42 WRAY Katherine Marple Stockport MAR/2A/27 WRAY Marline Bollington Cheshire East BOL/47/85 Total records matching : 6 . 1936-38 WRAY Arthur Stockport Third Stockport ST3/38/8 WRAY Dorothy Ashton Town Tameside AST/219/66 WRAY Edith Knutsford Cheshire East KNU/1A/17 WRAY John Knutsford Cheshire East KNU/1A/75 WRAY Kathleen Wilmslow Cheshire East WIL/49/50 Total records matching : 5 . Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1939 to 1940 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference WRAY Anthony Stalybridge Tameside STB/2B/43 WRAY Sylvia Stockport Third Stockport ST3/5/40 Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1939 to 1940 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference WRAY Anthony Stalybridge Tameside STB/2B/43 WRAY Sylvia Stockport Third Stockport ST3/5/40 Total records matching : 2 . Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1941 to 1942 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference WRAY Joan Mossley Tameside MOS/2A/18 WRAY Renee Stalybridge Tameside STB/2B/90 Total records matching : 2 . There are a few in Ashton but don't know if this will help. Christine

If he was buried with someone else, then he would not have had a coffin - the norm was to put the baby in the arms of the dead adult. However, that is hair-splitting. If he was stillborn, then his birth and death will not have been registered in the normal way. He may appear on the register of Stillbirths, but you will have to apply in writing to the Superintendant Registrar, and I THINK it is only next of kin who can get details. OC

just spoken to mum and she is adiment that he died.Her dad came home for compassionate leave and bought a small coffin. He was buried in Dukinfield cemetary in the catholic part or so my mum said. HE WAS PUT IN WITH A WOMAN THAT DIED THE SAME TIME.Don't know if thats true.I will start with contacting the cemetery and see what they have.If there is no trace of him then i will follow the lead that he was put away.I though every birth had to be registerd.

Depending on how much money you want to throw at this, you could ask the LOCAL register office to do a search for his birth. They will do a three year search for £11.50, I think. Wray does not seem to be a very common name in the area, and you can give his mother's name as a checking point. He may have been registered as 'male'. I agree - pin down his birth first, as that will give you a time frame to search. OC

Mum told me his name he was named after his father Joseph William Wray. I suppose he could have been reg of another family name.

Some areas have computerised records of burials and would be able to search for a name. It depends how common the surname is in that area. In the circumstances I would concentrate on the birth, because you have a reasonable time frame. He could have lived many years but was never spoken of. How do you know the child's name? Could it be that he was known by a given name other than his registered name.? eg. registered James but called Joseph. Gwyn

She went to school and lived in Dukinfield ,Cheshire with the rest of the family. Grandparents also in Dukinfield.Ashton u lyne ,Lancs next town and Hyde ,Cheshire the town on the other side.Would i get any joy by visiting the local cemetary in Dukinfield.

Maybe the baby was baptised. Parish registers just might help with a birthdate, if you locate a probable area, ...maybe even near the grandparents home. Gwyn

Do you know where your Mum started school? I'm thinking that it would be about the time that her brother was born and may indicate a birth area. Gwyn

Would the child enter into an insitution with given name of Joseph William Wray? Is it likely that it could have been changed.Where would his birth be registerd?

Thankyou to everyone who gave me an anwser especially OC.Donna