Genealogy Chat

Hadn't spotted that one - thanks Rose I'll go and have a look Christine update: just had a look Rose - I don't think she's mine as on 1871 census Bessy was 14 and Eliza was 8 thanks for looking anyway. I've always thought it was odd that they called them Bessy and Eliza as both are usually derivates of elizabeth - just makes it more complicated! Christine

Think Eliza married David Cade as Elizabeth. She's a servant in 1881. If you search on Eliza* Brand born York* she ssems to be the only match. Rose

Thanks Rose Guess that's my next step I really appreciate all your help :) christine

Ellen's listed as being born in Selby in 1861 also. Rose

Hi Rose Sorry for the delay - was unable to get online yesterday The children are on 1871 census as both being born in york - Ellen age 10 and Bessy age 14 In 1881 - they are Not with their parents but Ellen had married Thomas Ward by then - no trace as yet of Bessy no help with birthplace as I think the census ntaker just put kingston upon Hull for everyone! Oh I now see where Selby comes in as on 1901 census Ellen gives her birthplace as Selby - maybe I'll have to send for the one Georgina found a ref. for. Christine

I see Ellen married Thomas Ward: 1881: Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Thomas WARD Head M Male 23 Kingston-Upon-Hull, York, England Cutler Ellen WARD Wife M Female 20 Kingston-Upon-Hull, York, England Hawker Patrick WARD Son Male 2 Kingston-Upon-Hull, York, England Thomas WARD Son Male 6 m Kingston-Upon-Hull, York, England Source Information: Dwelling 1 Barbers Yard Census Place Kingston-upon-Hull, York, England 1891 England Census about Ellen Ward Name: Ellen Ward Age: 31 Estimated birth year: abt 1860 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Thos Gender: Female Where born: Seby, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Southcoates Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Town: Kingston Upon Hull County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Sculcoates Sub-registration district: Drypool ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Charles Ward 6 Ellen Ward 31 Ellen Ward 8 Katherine A Ward 2 Mary Ward 4 Patrick Ward 12 Thomas Ward 10 Thos Ward 33 Rose

Christine, Do you have the daughters after 1871? Just trying to narrow down when they were born and where because there are inconsistencies between 1861 and 1871. Rose

Hi Rose I know!!! I've heard about knockinga few years off your age but Jane's is ridiuculous! Looks like I'm going to have to take a 'punt' on sending for some certs to try and find children's births. Oh why did I decide this family history thing was a good idea?! Christine :)

Would help if Jane kept her age straight. I wonder if the children were registered under Jane's maiden name? Rose

Thanks for that Georgina - It's worth a try although I can't see where Selby comes into it I really appreciate all your help Christine

Christine I cant see a marriage that fits, I think you are going to have to send for one of the childrens birth certificates to find out their mothers name. I think this is Ellen's birth reference... Births Jun 1859 BRAND Female Selby 9c 521 Georgina.

Thanks Portland Rose In 1881 Jane is mistranscribed as Brannen (!!) living at Rosemary Place, York age 50 with Robert age 52 in 1891 she's in York workhouse as a widow in 1901 she's in Holts Yard, York with 2 of her grandchildren

Christine, I'm listing them so I can try and figure out their details. Where is Jane in 1881? So far I don't see a marriage or the births of the children. Rose

Thanks Portland Rose, I did have that but it's kind of you to check Georgina - not on 1861 no; they are on rg 9/3559 as lodgers in Pocklington - the copy is pretty hard to read but they are at the bottom of page 3 and top of page 4 what looks like 17 London Street Forgot to mention before that Jane is on every census as born in Doncaster Christine see how slow I am you've found them whilst I was typing!!

Christine I cant see them on the 1861 census was the name mistranscribed? Georgina.

Here's the family in 1871 for reference: 1871 England Census about Robert Brand Name: Robert Brand Age: 42 Estimated birth year: abt 1829 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Janet Gender: Male Where born: Aberdeen, Scotland Civil Parish: Holy Trinity Kings Court County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: York Sub-registration district: Bootham ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 59 Household Members: Name Age Bessy Brand 14 Eliza Brand 8 Ellen Brand 10 Janet Brand 46 Robert Brand 42 Rose

Forget that, found them in 1861.. Name: Betsy Brand Age: 6 Estimated birth year: abt 1855 Relation: Lodger Gender: Female Where born: York, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Pocklington County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Pocklington Sub-registration district: Pocklington ED, institution, or vessel: 8e Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 17 Household Members: Name Age Betsy Brand 6 Ellen Brand 2 Jane Brand 28 Robert Brand 29 Barney Fisher 25 Faney Fisher 25 James Fisher 25 John Fisher 19 Mary Ann Haynes 37 Matthew Haynes 39 Rose Hannah Haynes 9 John Marshall 20 John Reed 70 James Ryley 23 Charles Wright 75

Robert Brand born c 1829 in Scotland Married Jane (surname unknown) I have them both on census from 1861 to 1881 and then Jane on 1891 and 1901 First census with a child is 1861 Bessy aged 6 Robert was shown age 29 and Jane 28 they were in Pocklington on that census then York after that. Robert must have died post 1881 but haven't been able to find his death yet either To progress with this line I am trying to find details of their marriage but haven't had any luck with BMDs so far Any ideas of how I can find out Jane's maiden name please? Christine

Thanks Georgina - I'm a slow typist!! Betsy (Bessy) birth shown on 1861 as York but 1871 as Kendal Shoke, Cumberland

Christine do you want to give us some names & dates & maybe we can help. When & where was their first child born? Georgina.