Genealogy Chat

THANK YOU ALL ONCE AGIN.

YOU ALL TAKE CARE.

KINDEST REGARDS,

KATHRYN

Excellent news, Kathryn!

Thanks for letting us know.

UPDATE

Morning all, firstly, thank you all for your continued help and support in my Quest. I contacted Lambeth Town Hall and they said that they have a Charles Ernest Clark buried in the Lambeth Cemetery but couldn't give me any more details other than it is is a Public Grave where other people are buried and that the area is now fully overgrown.

Following this I raided the Christmas money and sent off for a PDF Certificate from the GRO for the death that ArgyllGran listed. BINGO. It is my Charles Ernest Clark. I can't thank you all enough. Charles died on 26 May 1922 at St Thomas's Hospital, Lambeth. He was 39. The informant was none other than his wife/widow Jessie A Clark. He died of pneumonia and cardiac failure. He had been a Steamship Steward in the Merchant Service.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

Kindest regards,

Kathryn

Hi ErikaH, I agree but funds are limited I'm afraid. If and when I manage to get the documents from Deceased Online, then if they don't yield much then I'll try and gather some pennies together to purchase the Cert.

Thanks for your further help.

Regards,

Kathryn

The cert would be more informative

Thank you again ArgyllGran. I've looked into this death and it looks like it could be Charles E. The age ties in correctly so fingers crossed. I've gone onto Deceased Online that I've used before and am hoping to purchase the Burial Register etc to see if this gives me any further clues. Unfortunately I've had to email them. I've used Deceased Online before to obtain various copies of documents but now when you go to purchase it asks for the start date and end date of ones Bank Card. My new Card only has a start month and year end so it's not letting me purchase the relevant documents. Hopefully they will come back with some other form of payment method. This is a pain!!!!

I'll let you know if and once I've managed to obtain the same what the outcome is.

Thanking you once again.

Regards,

Kathryn

I haven't investigated this death -:

CLARK, CHARLES ERNEST 39
GRO Reference: 1922 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 224

That would allow Jessie to remarry in July.



Charles Ernest Clark
in the Web: UK, Burial and Cremation Index, 1576-2014
Name Charles Ernest Clark
Register Type Burial
Death Date abt 1922
Burial or Cremation Date 16 May 1922
Burial or Cremation Place Greenwich, London, England

It says:

"D" Eng expired (Eng) 8.4.22

(At least I think it's Eng - handwriting not easy to read.)

I don't think it means that Charles expired - think it would have said "deceased" rather than "expired".
It may be the period of his 3-yr loan from the RN which ended.

The last entry in the list of dates at the right hand side of page 2 includes:

Name of ship [ needn't mean an actual ship ]: LONDON [something]
From: 14.12.21 to 8.4.22

So I assume he returned to the UK in Nov/Dec 1921 as expected, and was in the UK in early 1922

Morning. Thank you both for your further help. It's great to know that Fold3 is free this weekend. I've been on there and downloaded the 2 page document but it's blurry once downloaded. Do I presume that you've both seen it? If so, there's an entry at the bottom of page 2 on the right hand side with a capital letter D and then some writing after that. Does anyone know what that means please? ArgyllGran you're right about the dates. Why do they call it WW11 1939-1948 when in fact it is under WW1 dates?

Still no sign of a death for him, he becomes very elusive.

Thank you again for your continued help.

Regards,

Kathryn

In that case, the statement in the transcription "Enlistment Date 1939-1948" is very misleading - not to mention wrong.

Those dates don't appear anywhere on the image.

I don't see any sign that he died in Australia - though if so, that would fit, as Shirley says.

He was "approved to be included in draft travelling to UK in November" 1921.

Fold 3 is free this weekend if you log in through ancestry

Basically the transcription is as is from the records card

Says he was on loan from the Royal Navy and sighne from 3.8. 1919 for three years



Name Charles Ernest Clark
Gender Male
Birth Date 12 Jun 1881
Birth Place Dalhouise India
Enlistment Date 1939-1948
Military Service Branch Royal Australian Navy
Service Number 9140
Spouse
Jessie Clark
Next of Kin Jessie Clark
Series Description A6770: Ran, Petty Officers and Men

Any money due was paid to his wife

Suggests he died whilst in Australia so her remarrying in 1921 as a widow wouid fit

Perhaps he had emigrated to Australia.

That WW2 record could have the clue.

Sorry ArgyllGran, I was having a Senior Moment. Am still looking for his death though. The man is elusive!!!

Regards,

Kathryn

I'm not sure what you mean, Kathryn.

You said that Jessie's 1922 marriage cert said she was a widow.

But Charles was still alive, as proved by the Australian WW2 record which you posted.

Therefore they must have divorced or separated, and she claimed to be a widow for respectability.
Divorce was considered shameful in those days.

Hi ArgyllGran. Thank you for your response. Excuse my ignorance but I can't see anything for Charles showing Jessie as his wife in 1922 on his record. Maybe I'm having another senior moment!!!

Regards,

Kathryn

Charles didn't die before Jessie's 1922 marriage, in view of his WW2 record.

They must have divorced, or maybe just separated , and Jessie would have called herself a widow to save face in 1922.

On the other hand, Jessie is named as his wife in the transcription of the WW2 record.
Of course, that might depend on the wording of the actual record - it might just be recording the fact that he had been married, and might also say "divorced", "estranged" or similar.

Thank you ErikaH. On 8 July 1922 Jessie marries my Grand Uncle Arthur John Neville Bryant and the MC shows her as being a Widow.

Regards,

Kathryn

Jessie was ‘married’ on 1921 census

Had two children living with her……….

Hello ArgyllGran. Thank you so much for this information. I do have most of it but it is the original images of the Australia WW11 Service Record that I would dearly love to have. Court Martial, I wonder what that was all about?

Am trying to see when he was last in service as his wife Jessie Amelia marries again in 1922 so am wondering did Charles die as she is given as a Widow, or did he just disappear somewhere?

Kind regards,

Kathryn

Do you have this?


Charles Ernest Clark
in the Web: UK, Royal Marines Registers of Service Index, 1842-1925
Name Charles Ernest Clark
Birth Date 12 Jun 1881
Enlistment Date 12 Oct 1899
Division Royal Marine Artillery
Register Number 8454
URL https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7759056

Birthplace: Delhousie, India.
Trade: Farm labourer
Religion: Church of England
Enlisted: 12 October 1899 at Colchester.
NOK: Father, Arthur
Address: Curlingtye Green, Woodham Walter, Maldon, Essex.
Description on enlistment: 5ft 7 8/10th inches; dark complexion, dark hair, blue eyes. Tattoo marks on fingers and back of left hand, also tattoo marks on back and front of left forearm.

Rank: Private
Company: 2 [?]
Name of division or ship: RM Arty. Supy.

Entry 12 Oct 1899 - discharge 31 Dec 1899: VG character.
1 Jan 1900 - 1 May 1900: cause of discharge - L Coy
2 May 1900 - 8 Oct 1900: cause of discharge - CM; Character fair
9 Oct 1900 - 15 Oct 1900: cause of discharge - TF
16 Oct 1900 - 3 Nov 1900 (on transfer to [? something I can't read ]): cause of discharge: E L Chatham. Character VG; ability - fair

Conduct: 12 Oct 1899 - first class.
Conduct : 9 Oct 1900 - second class.


CM = court martial ??? Services forfeited: 7 days.