Genealogy Chat

The certificates arrived this morning. They confirm a) Florence's father as Thomas and that he was a stoker which matches, b) that the Barrett marriage was indeed Florence's second marriage, and c) that her middle name was clearly Mary (and not May) on both certificates.
Thank you, yet again, ArgyllGran, that gives me some further leads to follow up.

Kent Burials
Strood, Old & Cuxton Road Cemeteries, Kent, England
Transcript of George's record
First name(s)  George
County  Kent
Last name  Mathieson
Country  England
Sex  Male
Grave reference  Section U Grave No. 188 (C)
Birth year  1887
Notes  Entry 7482
Age at death  53
Record source  Strood, Kent, Cuxton Road Cemetery burials 1883-2005
Burial year  1940
Record set  Kent Burials
Burial date  05 Nov 1940
Category  Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Occupation  Painter & decorator
Subcategory  Civil Deaths & Burials
Death place  Died at 5 Martin Rd, Strood. Removed from Wykeham St, Strood.
Collections from  England, Great Britain


Florence May Barrett in 1950
Kent Burials
Strood, Old & Cuxton Road Cemeteries, Kent, England
Transcript of Florence May's record
First name(s)  Florence May
County  Kent
Last name  Barrett
Country  England
Sex  Female
Grave reference  Section U Grave No. 188 (C)
Birth year  1895
Notes  Entry 903
Age at death  55
Record source  Strood, Kent, Cuxton Road Cemetery burials 1883-2005
Burial year  1950
Record set  Kent Burials
Burial date  06 Feb 1950
Category  Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Occupation  Housewife
Subcategory  Civil Deaths & Burials
Death place  Died at St Bart's Hospital Rochester. Removed from Strood.
Collections from  England, Great Britain
Place  Strood, Old & Cuxton Road Cemeteries
 

Re the George Mathieson in 1891 and 1901 censuses above -

there's another George Mathieson:

George Mathieson
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name: George Mathieson
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Robert Mathieson
Mother's Name: Robina Mathieson
Gender: Male
Where born: Renfrew, renfrewsh
Registration Number: 564/1
Registration district: Greenock East
Civil parish: Greenock East
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 22 St Lawrence St
Occupation: Message Boy
ED: 32
Household schedule number: 47
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1901_194
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Robert Mathieson 45 Head - brass finisher
Robina Mathieson 42 Wife
George Mathieson 14 Son
Mary Mathieson 13 Daur (Daughter)
Jessie Mathieson 7 Daur (Daughter)
Walter Mathieson 2 Son


However, the one with mother Jane seems the more likely to be Florence's husband, as his father Robert was a painter and decorator too.
Also, that Robert's father was named Lawrence/Laurence, which could account for George & Florence's son Laurence Thomas's name.

Keith has already told us that this is the wrong Florence

Marriage of the WRONG FMB

June 5, at the parish church Eastleigh, by the Rev. Canon J. Gordon Crowdy. John Young. L. and S.W.R., Eastleigh. to Florence Mary Batt., the Gables, Winchester.
16 June 1917 - Hampshire Independent - Southampton, Hampshire, England

1921 Census Of England & Wales
43 Bush Street, Chatham, Kent, England

Household members (4 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
George Mathewson Head
Male 1888 32 Greenock, Scotland House Painter & Decorator Borstol Institution Borstal
Florence Mary Mathewson Wife
Female 1895 25 Chatham, Kent, England Housewife -
George Sydney Mathewson Son
Male 1917 3 Portsmouth, Hampshire, England - -
Robert Mathewson Son
Male 1919 1 Chatham, Kent, England - -

??

George Mathieson
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name: George Mathieson
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Robert Mathieson
Mother's Name: Jane Mathieson
Gender: Male
Where born: Maryhill, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 564/2
Registration district: Greenock West
Civil parish: Greenock West
Town: Greenock
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 34 Nelson St West
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 34
Household schedule number: 111
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1901_198
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Robert Mathieson 53 Head - painter and decorator
Jane Mathieson 41 Wife
George Mathieson 13 Son


George Mathieson
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name: George Mathieson
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Robert Mathieson
Mother's Name: Jane Mathieson
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 564/2
Registration district: Greenock West
Civil parish: Greenock West
Town: Greenock
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 34 Nelson St
ED: 34
Household schedule number: 152
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1891_183
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Robert Mathieson 43 Head - house painter
Jane Mathieson 41 Wife - Irvine, Ayrshire
George Mathieson 4 Son
Marion Black 33 Sister-in-law


Robert Mathieson
in the Scotland, Select Marriages, 1561-1910
Name: Robert Mathieson
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 Nov 1872
Marriage Place: Irvine, Ayr, Scotland
Spouse: Janie Maitland
FHL Film Number: 300230

Is this the George you are assuming was Florence's husband?

George Mathieson
 in the UK, British Army World War I Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: George Mathieson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1887
Birth Place: Greenock, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Age: 19
Document Year: 1906
Regimental Number: 769
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Number of Images: 4
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
George Mathieson Self (Head)
Robert Mathieson Father

That man was in the RAMC.

Painter and decorator by occupation in 1906. <<<<<<<<<<
Florence's husband was a house painter and decorator in 1921 Census.<<<<<<<<<

George Mathieson
 in the 1911 England Census
Name: George Mathieson
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Birth Place: Greenock, Renfrewshire
Civil Parish: Aldershot
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: Mcgregor Barracks, Stanhope Lines, Aldershot
Marital status: Single
Rank: Private
Military Unit: Royal Army Medical Corps
Registration District Number: 34
Sub-registration District: Aldershot
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Piece: 3123


There is no matching birth in Scotland.

Although it won’t explain why you can’t find Florence in the 1939 if George signed up for WW11 at the earliest possible he could be in barracks and therefore not on the 1939

Thank you, ArgyllGran, that definitely looks like a good candidate. I've not been able to disprove it, which I could and did with the Young marriage. I'll order the certificate.

I also found the death and burial records for George the Elder and the possible second marriage, but I hadn't spotted that Florence was also buried in the same plot as George. Two certificates to be ordered!

There are also three more children from the first marriage:

MATHIESON, EVELYN MAY
GRO Reference: 1931 J Quarter in STROOD AND HOO Volume 02A Page 1284

MATHIESON, GERALD NORMAN
GRO Reference: 1926 M Quarter in STROOD AND HOO Volume 02A Page 1145

MATHIESON, RICHARD THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1931 J Quarter in STROOD AND HOO Volume 02A Page 1285

It looks as if George senior was in the RAMC, but not after his marriage as far as I can tell (I had hoped there might be a record of the marriage).

This might be a confusing factor in C1939:

First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
George W Burrett 23 May 1885 Male Storehouse Assistant R N A D Upnor Married 47 1
Florence M Barrett 16 Feb 1895 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 47 2

which suggests this marriage:

First name(s) George W
Last name Barrett
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1915
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ George W Barrett married one of these peopleFlorence M Skinner
Spouse's last name Skinner
District Battle
District number -
County Sussex
Country England
Volume 2B
Volume as transcribed 2B
Page number 122
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Great Britain, England

Still can't find her / them in C1939 tho'

First things first: get the certificates.

Many thanks!

Thank you, Kay - yes that's definitely her baptism.

I saw that possible second marriage and death, but the middle name is May, so it might not be the right woman.
Certs would be needed.

BARRETT, FLORENCE MAY 55
GRO Reference: 1950 M Quarter in CHATHAM Volume 05B Page 312


Florence May Barrett
Birth 1895
Death 6 Feb 1950 (aged 54–55)
Burial
Strood Cemetery
Strood, Medway Unitary Authority, Kent, England
Plot
U, 188
Memorial ID
225113567


EDIT:
Yes, that's probably the correct death, as Florence May Barrett is buried in the same plot as George Mathieson:


George Mathieson
Birth 1887
Death 5 Nov 1940 (aged 52–53)
Burial
Strood Cemetery
Strood, Medway Unitary Authority, Kent, England
Plot U, 188
Memorial ID 225120859

If all the above is right then Florence probably married Christopher Barrett in Chatham in 1942 and then died in Chatham in 1950. All on Freebmd.

Good spot.
Keith will need to get the certificate.

If Florence’s husband was in the Navy that could account for the move to Chatham OR it was to be near family.

Edit: there is a possible death for George in 1940, Stroud (Kent) age 53

George Sydney's marriage:

George S Mathieson
 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: George S Mathieson
Registration Date: Jan 1943[Feb 1943] [Mar 1943] 
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Chatham
Inferred County: Kent
Spouse: Kathleen N Killpartrick
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 2261


Kathleen Norah Mathieson
 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Kathleen Norah Mathieson
Death Age: 67
Birth Date: 4 Jun 1921
Registration Date: Nov 1988
Registration District: Chatham
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 505

They had a daughter, born 1948 Chatham.

???

Marriages Mar 1917   (>99%)
Batt  Florence M  Mathieson  Portsmouth  2b 863   
Mathieson  George  Batt  Portsmouth  2b 863

Children (there may be more - I haven't searched exhaustively):

MATHIESON, ROBERT mmn BATT
GRO Reference: 1919 D Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 1457
  
MATHIESON, GEORGE SYDNEY mmn BATT
GRO Reference: 1918 M Quarter in PORTSMOUTH Volume 02B Page 757

MATHIESON, LAURENCE THOMAS mmn BATT
GRO Reference: 1922 J Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 1332


1921:
Florence Mary
Mathewson
1895 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Chatham, Kent, England <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Chatham
Medway
Kent

with Robert 1919 (born Chatham) , George 1888 (born Scotland) , and George Sydney Mathewson 1917 (born Portsmouth).



Lawrence Thomas Mathieson
 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Lawrence Thomas Mathieson
Death Age: 58
Birth Date: 26 Apr 1922
Registration Date: Jan 1981[Feb 1981] [Mar 1981] 
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Chatham
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 0723


George Sydney Mathieson
 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: George Sydney Mathieson
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1917
Registration Date: May 2001
Registration District: Medway
Inferred County: Kent
Register Number: C34A
District and Subdistrict: 5611C
Entry Number: 290


So far, I haven't found them in 1939, nor Florence's death.

There are so many possibilities for what may have happened to Florence.

In the orphanage - she may have died, may have been one of those children sent overseas, may have gone back to her mother. If she had stayed in the orphanage she would have been prorated for a life in service - so could be anywhere.

She could have been about 21 when war was declared - did she join a women service, work in the factories. Did she die of Spanish Flu. Or did she just quietly marry?

So much to think about.

Detail Source
Name: Florence Mary Batt
Gender: Female
Record Type: Christening (Baptism)
Baptism Date: 22 Dec 1895
Baptism Place: Chatham, St Pauls, Kent, England
Father:
Thomas Batt
Mother:
Alice Batt.

Absolutely. Which is why it's a remarkable coincidence.

The day and month of the births may be the same - the year certainly isn’t, which must be kept in mind

So, by no means as remarkable as it would have been had the years been the same