Genealogy Chat

Daniel Robert Smith
Spouse Annie Tarrant
Father Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Mother Maria Martha Westerby
Children Miriam Rosina Annie
Birth 30 Oct 1882 Poplar, Middlesex, England
Death 21 Sep 1938 Greenwich, Kent, England
Residence 1930 Greenwich, Kent, England

Thanks once again everyone for your help. I have now got answers to so many questions I had.

Looks like I'm going to have to pay for Ancestry membership!!

Gill

The paish register for Ambrose's marriage is available on Ancestry. Ambrose was a Blacksmith from Shadwell.

It looks as though the lights were out when the register was copied but you can see that everyone signed their own names.
Added.
Maria & Ambrose are in a lot of Ancestry trees. They are also on the Find a Grav site. Maria died in 1911, Ambrose 1919 both had been in the Epsom Workhouse and buried in the local cemetry

1921

Ambrose Selling James
Smith
1904
London, London, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Cecilia Violet
Smith
1906
London, London, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Doris Gwendoline
Smith
1918
Eastbourne, Sussex, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Edward Ambrose
Smith
1876
London, London, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Miriam Frances
Smith
1912
Watford, Hertfordshire, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Winifred Muriel
Smith
1914
Watford, Hertfordshire, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Myrtle Flora
Smith
1908
London, London, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Edward
Cocking
1873
Thorne, Yorkshire, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Flora Anne
Cockin
1871
East Malling, Kent, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Marriages Sep 1897 (>99%)
Cocking Edward Lewisham 1d 2052
COPPINS Flora Ann Lewisham 1d 2052

Name: Edward Ambrose Smith
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1876
Marriage Date: 24 Aug 1903
Marriage Place: Emmanuel, West Dulwich, Lambeth, England
Father: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Spouse: Emma Violet Coppins.................age 23
Father: James William Coppins
Register Type: Parish Register

Name: Emma Violet Smith
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Stroud, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Watford
Country: England
Street Address: 287 High Steet, Watford, Herts
Marital status: Married
Registration District Number: 140
Sub-registration District: Watford
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 7710
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Ambrose Smith 34
Emma Violet Smith 32
Ambrose Selling James Smith 7**********************note second forename
Cecilia Violet Smith 5
Myrtle Flora Smith 2


Deaths Mar 1929 (>99%)
Smith Emma V 49 Lewes 2b 350


Name: Edward Ambrose Smith
Marital Status: Widower
Marriage Age: 53
Birth Date: abt 1876
Marriage Date: 1 Aug 1929
Marriage Place: Eastbourne Christ Church, Sussex, England
Parish as it Appears: Christ Church Eastbourne
Father: Ambrose Allan Todd Smith
Spouse: Mabel Ann Neve.................age 56
Father: James Henry Neve

1881

Name: Daniel Smith
Age: 73
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Jane Smith
Gender: Male
Where Born: Raintree, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St John Horsleydown
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 9 Gainsford St
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Chelsea Pensioner
Registration District: St Olave Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Piece: 556
Folio: 46
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel Smith 73
Jane Smith 37


Banns
Name: Daniel Smith……….widower
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 Mar 1863
Marriage Place: Portland, Dorset, England
Spouse: Sarah Jane Johns……….spinster

No family with them in 1871

Edred Road (Cottage Hospital), Chalton, Dover, Kent, England
Daniel Smith Head - Male 63 1808 - Kent, England
Sarah J Smith Wife - Female 47 1824 - Devon, England
Henry Kilford Boarder - Male 39 1832 - Wiltshire, England
Sarah Clifford Boarder - Female 37 1834 - Worcestershire, England


SMITH, MARIA 53
GRO Reference: 1862 D Quarter in WEYMOUTH Volume 05A Page 217

Just in case you don't have later censuses:

Ambrose Smith
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Ambrose Smith
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Maria Smith
Gender: Male
Where Born: Lanarkshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Willingdon
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street Address: Norway Cottages N 8
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Fitter
Registration District: Eastbourne
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 1036
Folio: 65
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Ambrose Smith 31
Maria Smith 26
Edward Smith 5
Richard Smith 2
Alfred Smith


Ambrose Smith
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Ambrose Smith
Gender: Male
Age: 41
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1850
Spouse:
Maria Smith
Child:
Edward Smith
Richard Smith
Robert Smith
Cecilia Smith
Birth Place: Scotland
Civil parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Residence Place: Greenwich, London, England
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub registration district: Greenwich East
ED, Institution or Vessel: 23
Neighbors:
Piece: 515
Folio: 39
Household Members Age Relationship
Ambrose Smith 41 Head
Maria Smith 36 Wife
Edward Smith 15 Son
Richard Smith 12 Son
Robert Smith 9 Son
Cecilia Smith 3 Daughter
John Ketchin 47 Lodger

Amhara T Smith
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Amhara T Smith
[Ambrose Allen Todd Smith]
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Maria M Smith
Birth Place: Scotland
Civil Parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration District: Greenwich
Sub-registration District: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors:
Piece: 542
Folio: 94
Page Number: 19
Household Schedule Number: 118
Household Members:
Name Age
Amhara T Smith 50
Maria M Smith 45
Alfred T Smith 20
Daniel R Smith 18
Cecilia M Smith 13
Mary A A Danson 20


Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Age in 1911: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Glasgow, Scotland
Civil Parish: Epsom
Country: England
Street Address: 285 Hook Road, Epsom, Surrey
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Labourer
Registration District Number: 31
Sub-registration District: Epsom
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 2961
Household Members:
Name Age
Ambrose Allen Todd Smith 60
Maria Martha Smith 55


I don't see him in 1871.

Name: Joseph Westerby
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 12 Jul 1847
Marriage Place: St John the Evangelist, Clapham, Wandsworth, England
Father: Joseph Westerby
Spouse: Sarah Gill
Father: Henry Gill
Register Type: Parish Register


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
4, Hannah Place, Lambeth, London & Surrey, England
Joseph Westerby Head Married Male 35 1826 Barge bulider Norfolk, England
Sarah Westerby Wife Married Female 33 1828 - Petersfield, Hertfordshire (sic), England
Leah S Westerby Daughter - Female 12 1849 - Lambeth, Surrey, England
Edwin E Westerby Son - Male 9 1852 Scholar Battersea, Surrey, England
Francis Westerby Son - Male 7 1854 Scholar Lambeth, Surrey, England
Maria Westerby Daughter - Female 5 1856 Scholar Westminster, Middlesex, England
Alfred Westerby Son - Male 1 1860 - Middlesex, England

Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)

Smith Ambrose Allen T Stepney 1c 880
Westerby Maria Martha Stepney 1c 880

From FREEBMD - showing all info needed to apply to GRO


https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Name: Maria Martha Westerby
Gender: Female
Age: 0
Birth Date: 12 Jan 1856
Baptism Date: 10 Feb 1856
Baptism Place: St John the Evangelist, Smith Square, London, Westminster, England
Father: Joseph Westerby
Mother: Sarah Westerby

Name: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1851
Marriage Date: 12 Jun 1876
Marriage Place: St Paul, Shadwell, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: Daniel Smith.................Farrier
Spouse: Maria Martha Westerby............age 20
Father: Joseph Westerby..............Barge Builder
Register Type: Parish Register

ErikaH
"The parents and some older siblings were in Cavalry and Artillery Barracks, St Mary, Northgate, Canterbury in 1841 - father Daniel's occupation FARRIER - as per Ambrose's marriage cert.

Danl Smith 30.born in Kent
Maria Smith 30 born in Kent
Daniel Smith 6
Richd Smith 1
Maria S Smith 15 born in Kent"

I tried to apply for Ambrose's marriage cert, but the GRO refunded my money! Can I ask how you managed to find it please?

Gill

Oh my goodness, I cannot thank you all enough for this information. I am seriously touched.

<3 <3 <3 <3

I've used some credits on SP to have a look at the 1851 census image, to check on "Isabella" - and it is indeed Ambrose, mistranscribed.

The family seem to have been in army married quarters or similar (at Hamilton Cavalry Barracks, per Ancestry transcription posted earlier) , as there are lots of entries for women described as "soldier's wife", and children as "soldier's child".
There must be several pages of them, but at 6 credits per page, I'm not looking further!


Maria Smith, soldier's wife, 42, Canterbury.
Cecilia Smith, soldier's child, 19, Bangalore, East Indies, British subject.
Daniel J (or S ?) Smith, soldier's child, 16, Bangalore, East Indies, British subject.
Sellins / Sellin Richard Smith, soldier's child, 11, Bellary (?), East Indies, British subject.
John Jesse Smith, soldier's child, 4, Dublin, Island Bridge.
Ambrose Allen Todd Smith, soldier's child, [ ? ], Glasgow, Lanarkshire.



The left edge of the page is chopped off, so the SP transcription of Allen instead of Sellins is understandable.
The handwriting isn't very clear, so Isabella instead of Ambrose is also feasible, though Ambrose is obvious when one already knows what it should be.
His age has a line through it, so that the transcribed age of "9 months" on Ancestry is also understandable, as would be "0 months", or "Infant" - but it's not age 2 as in SP's transcription.

But there's no baptism record.



ADDED:
I've informed SP about the mistranscription of Ambrose's name in 1851.
They say they'll correct it, though it may be some time before it shows on the website, for "technical reasons".

Thanks, AG...... I searched for Ambrose as per Ancestry transcription :-S :-S

Still nothing on FMP

1851 for the Smith family and others is on SP -

Without spending credits -
the names transcribed are:

Cecilia, Daniel J, Maria, John Jesse , and Allen Richard Smith (Sellins on Ancestry)
Edward Gussin, Elizabeth Guddin (sic), Mary Guddin.
Amelia and Jane Bruce

But Ambrose isn't transcribed, as such.

SP's transcription does, however, include an Isabella Allen Smith aged 2 in the same household as Sellin/Allen. That must be Ambrose, very badly garbled.

No sign of his baptism anywhere in Scotland.

??

First name(s) Daniel
Last name Smith
Baptism date 20 Jul 1807
Father's first name(s) Chas
Mother's first name(s) Fanny
Record set Kent Baptisms
Place Rainham, St Margaret of Antioch

First name(s) Cecilia
Last name Smith
Birth date 14 Jul 1831
Baptism date 3 Aug 1831
Place Bangalore
Presidency Madras
Father's first name(s) Daniel
Father's last name Smith
Mother's first name(s) Mariah

They married in 1829 - as per info posted at 15.10

Soldiers had to get permission to marry. So it is possible that they didn’t have this and they lived as man and wife and legally matprried later.