Genealogy Chat

Ambrose was my gt gt grandfather on my Dad's side. Recently I discovered that it appears he was born 12 years before his parents were married so I assume he must have been adopted. I can only assume that he took the name Smith as I cannot find any record of his birth or entry in the census until he became a Smith.

Would anyone have any ideas where I might be able to apply to for any information please?

Thanks

Gill

Civil registration didn't start in Scotland until 1855 so there won't be a birth certificate. You could look for a baptism for him. Try looking for a baptism for him using his mother's maiden name if his parents weren't married until after he was born. He could have still been their child.

You need Scotlandspeople website for Scottish records.

Kath. x

Don't assume anything until you can prove/disprove it, by investigating carefully

WHO were his parents?

Were they both single when they married?

1851 CENSUS

Name: Ambrose Allen Todd Smtih
Age: 9 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relationship: Soldiers Child (Soldier)
Gender: Male
Where Born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Parish Number: 647
Civil Parish: Hamilton
County: Lanarkshire
ED: Hamilton Cavalry Barracks
Page: 8
Household Schedule Number: 1
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1851_168
Household Members:
Name Age
Maria Smith 42......born Canterbury, Kent
Cecilia Smith 19
Daniel S Smith 16
Sellins Richard Smith 11
John Jesse Smith 4
Ambrose Allen Todd Smtih 9 Mo
Elizabeth Gussin 26
Mary Gussin 4
Edward Gussin 1
Jane Bruce 29
Amelia Bruce 9

Above found on ANCESTRY

Can't see the record on FMP or on SP

According to a tree on Ancestry his father was Daniel Smith but perhaps that was his mother's husband.

Kath. x

1861

Name: Ambrose A Smith
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: 1851
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Daniel Smith
Mother's Name: Maria Smith
Gender: Male
Where Born: Glasgow, Scotland
Civil Parish: Portland
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Weymouth
Sub-registration District: Isle of Portland
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 18
Piece: 1351
Folio: 124
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel Smith 53
Maria Smith 51
John J Smith 14
Ambrose A Smith 10
Mariam A Smith 8


Name: Daniel Smith
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 10 Feb 1829*****************************************************
Marriage Place: Canterbury, Kent, England
Spouse: Maria Selling
FHL Film Number: 1786210

Name: Kodey Smith
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 08 Feb 1838
Baptism Date: 21 Feb 1838
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: Bangalore, Madras, India
Father: Daniel Smith
Mother: Maria
FHL Film Number: 521841

Name: Maria Sarah Smith
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 23 Jan 1833
Baptism Date: 05 Feb 1833
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: Bangalore, Madras, India
Father: Daniel Smith
Mother: Maria
FHL Film Number: 521841
Name: Maria Sarah Smith
Gender: Female


Age: 1
Birth Date: 1833
Burial Date: 24 Aug 1834
Burial Place: Bangalore, Madras, India
Father: Daniel Smith
Mother: Maria
FHL Film Number: 521842

Name: Private Daniel Smith
Enlistment Age: 20
Discharge Age: 44
Birth Date: abt 1808
Birth Place: Rainham Kent
Enlistment Year: 1828
Discharge Year: 1852
Regiment: Thirteenth Regt Of Light Dragoons
Regimental Number: 493


Name: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1851
Marriage Date: 12 Jun 1876
Marriage Place: St Paul, Shadwell, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: Daniel Smith
Spouse: Maria Martha Westerby
Register Type: Parish Register

Name: John Jesse Smith
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1847
Marriage Date: 24 Sep 1871
Marriage Place: Christ Church, Watney Street, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: Daniel Smith
Spouse: Isabella Pendley
Register Type: Parish Register

The parents and some older siblings were in Cavalry and Artillery Barracks, St Mary, Northgate, Canterbury in 1841 - father Daniel's occupation FARRIER - as per Ambrose's marriage cert.

Danl Smith 30.born in Kent
Maria Smith 30 born in Kent
Daniel Smith 6
Richd Smith 1
Maria S Smith 15 born in Kent

Name: Selling Richard Smith
Death Date: 8 May 1905
Death Place: Surrey, England
Probate Date: 20 Jun 1905
Probate Registry: London, England
Probate to Daniel Robert Smith and James Bertie Collier

Name: Maria Selling
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 16 Aug 1809
Baptism Place: St Peter's, Canterbury, Kent, England
Father: Richard Selling
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 1736628



1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
65, Behind Stonehouse Lane, St Andrew, Plymouth, Devon, England
Richard Selling Head Married Male 67 1784 Labourer Kent, England
Mary Ann Selling Wife Married Female 37 1814 - Stoke Climsland, Cornwall, England

1861

Name: Mary A Salling
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: 1814
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where Born: Callington, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish: St Andrew
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration District: Plymouth
Sub-registration District: St Andrew
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household Schedule Number: 755
Piece: 1439
Folio: 117
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary A Salling 47


Marriages Jun 1845 (>99%)
Selling Richard Stoke Damerel 9 506
Trend Mary Ann Stoke Damerel 9 506

17th June 1845

Both widowed
His father Richard Selling, Publican
Her father David Rapson, Labourer

SELLING, RICHARD 79
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 207

I'd be interested to know which marriage you think is that of Ambrose's parents..................

Soldiers had to get permission to marry. So it is possible that they didn’t have this and they lived as man and wife and legally matprried later.

They married in 1829 - as per info posted at 15.10

First name(s) Cecilia
Last name Smith
Birth date 14 Jul 1831
Baptism date 3 Aug 1831
Place Bangalore
Presidency Madras
Father's first name(s) Daniel
Father's last name Smith
Mother's first name(s) Mariah

??

First name(s) Daniel
Last name Smith
Baptism date 20 Jul 1807
Father's first name(s) Chas
Mother's first name(s) Fanny
Record set Kent Baptisms
Place Rainham, St Margaret of Antioch

1851 for the Smith family and others is on SP -

Without spending credits -
the names transcribed are:

Cecilia, Daniel J, Maria, John Jesse , and Allen Richard Smith (Sellins on Ancestry)
Edward Gussin, Elizabeth Guddin (sic), Mary Guddin.
Amelia and Jane Bruce

But Ambrose isn't transcribed, as such.

SP's transcription does, however, include an Isabella Allen Smith aged 2 in the same household as Sellin/Allen. That must be Ambrose, very badly garbled.

No sign of his baptism anywhere in Scotland.

Thanks, AG...... I searched for Ambrose as per Ancestry transcription :-S :-S

Still nothing on FMP

I've used some credits on SP to have a look at the 1851 census image, to check on "Isabella" - and it is indeed Ambrose, mistranscribed.

The family seem to have been in army married quarters or similar (at Hamilton Cavalry Barracks, per Ancestry transcription posted earlier) , as there are lots of entries for women described as "soldier's wife", and children as "soldier's child".
There must be several pages of them, but at 6 credits per page, I'm not looking further!


Maria Smith, soldier's wife, 42, Canterbury.
Cecilia Smith, soldier's child, 19, Bangalore, East Indies, British subject.
Daniel J (or S ?) Smith, soldier's child, 16, Bangalore, East Indies, British subject.
Sellins / Sellin Richard Smith, soldier's child, 11, Bellary (?), East Indies, British subject.
John Jesse Smith, soldier's child, 4, Dublin, Island Bridge.
Ambrose Allen Todd Smith, soldier's child, [ ? ], Glasgow, Lanarkshire.



The left edge of the page is chopped off, so the SP transcription of Allen instead of Sellins is understandable.
The handwriting isn't very clear, so Isabella instead of Ambrose is also feasible, though Ambrose is obvious when one already knows what it should be.
His age has a line through it, so that the transcribed age of "9 months" on Ancestry is also understandable, as would be "0 months", or "Infant" - but it's not age 2 as in SP's transcription.

But there's no baptism record.



ADDED:
I've informed SP about the mistranscription of Ambrose's name in 1851.
They say they'll correct it, though it may be some time before it shows on the website, for "technical reasons".