Genealogy Chat

You need to at least LOOK at the marriage info I posted………..and the info which greyghost posted

Erika, excuse me but I have indeed looked at all the info. i had already explored that marriage firstly but then dismissed it for several reasons.

I am always extremely grateful for any help and only ever ask when im really stuck.

I am trying to cut down on ordering certificates where possible as its expensive and this tree i am doing for a friend is extremely huge. Sometimes the only way to be exact is to order. i cant do that until next week when the offices are open again.

When people suddenly appear in areas away from where they were born, you always ask yourself how would they travel back in say 1871. Very few people travelled, they didnt have cars. So whilst there is a possibility of a marriage happening 100 miles away from where they were born, i always approach with caution looking nearer to home.

Of course i shall look again at all the info and yes maybe you are correct but please dont speak to me in the tone you have just now.

If & when i get the certs, I shall of course come back & let you know what I found out.

Thankyou for all your help

Florence in the hebrides

See also the details of the records re Maria Moore, nee Flatman.
For example, place of birth shown on the censuses - Thorpe Abbott.

If people post info which fits the criteria, why dismiss it?

My post was born out of exasperation

Florence, that William and Maria whose children you listed are incorrect.

If you check the GRO site birth index, there are 4 Howard births mmn Flatman in the period 1851-1861 that I could readily find.

Namely Rebecca 1851, George 1857, Ada 1859, and Frederick 1861.

No sign of the Howard children you listed with mmn Flatman.

This tallies with a family of Howards living in Church Rd Wortham in 1861 census. He is aged 38, Maria aged 45, both born Wortham.

That tallies with the baptism of a Maria Flatman baptised Jan 1816 Wortham, daur of JAMES Flatman and Elizabeth Rolfe.

Can't cut and paste as on tablet, but will try and dm you the image of baptism .

To conclude, the William and Maria Howard you found in the census are not the couple who married in 1850, and the Maria Flatman who married William Howard in 1850 was the daughter of a JAMES Flatman, not THOMAS Flatman.

Surely this is the first marriage and she has a possible brother living with them

William Moore
in the 1861 England Census
Name: William Moore
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Maria Moore
Gender: Male
Where Born: Syleham, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Leiston
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Blything
Sub-registration District: Westleton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 105
Piece: 1178
Folio: 95
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
William Moore 30
Maria Moore 26
Emma Moore 3
William Flatman 19 boarder
William Croft 19

in the 1871 England Census
Name: Myna Messe
[Myna Moore]
[Maria Moore]
[Moore]
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: 1835
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Thorpe Abbotts, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: Ipswich St Mary Stoke
Town: Ipswich
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Ipswich
Sub-registration district: St Matthew
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 28
Piece: 1751
Folio: 103
Page number: 5
Household Members Age Relationship
William Moore occ engine driver
40 Head
Myna Messe 36 Wife
Ellen Messe
9 Daughter
Alice Messe
5 Daughter
James Messe
1 Son

Mid transcription name is Moore

Births

MOORE, ALICE FLATMAN
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in BLYTHING Volume 04A Page 618


MOORE, ELLEN FLATMAN
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in BLYTHING Volume 04A Page 585

Name: Ellen Moore
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1861
Marriage Date: 8 Oct 1882
Marriage Place: St Thomas, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, England
Father:
William Moore occ engineer
Spouse:
George Girling
Register Type: Parish Register

Now a widow

Name: Maria Mori
[Maria Flatman]
[Maria Moore]
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 51
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1835
Marriage Date: 11 Oct 1886
Marriage Place: St Paul, Bow Common, Tower Hamlets, England
Father:
Thomas Flatman >>>>>>
Spouse:
Isaac Hayden
Register Type: Parish Register

1891 census

Maria Hayden
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Maria Hayden
Gender: Female
Age: 54
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1837
Spouse:
Isaac Hayden
Birth Place: Norfolk, England
Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Residence Place: Plaistow, West Ham, Essex, England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub registration district: West Ham
ED, Institution or Vessel: 51
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1328
Folio: 112
Household Members Age Relationship
Isaac Hayden
50 Head
Maria Hayden 54 Wife


Isaac Hayden
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Death Registration Place: West Ham, Essex, United Kingdom
Death Date: Jun 1897
Inferred Death Place: Essex, United Kingdom
Volume: 4a
Page: 16


And possibly

Deaths Mar 1918
Hayden Maria 84 W.Ham 4a 62

Most (all?) of the above was already posted on page 1.

So I might as well also repeat that William Flatman in the 1861 census is NOT Maria's brother.

Repeating his birth record from page 1:

FLATMAN, WILLIAM mmn COLMAN
GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in DEPWADE Volume 13 Page 49

Maria's mother's mn was West. Some of Maria's siblings' births are listed on
page 1.

I did read the first page but other marriages were also suggested so I followed through on what looks like the right marriages

Did check for William but couldn’t find him as a brother but assumed he couid be family connected

It was just to keep things on what seems to be the right track

:-D