Genealogy Chat

So neither born 1920

Thought the birth of Christopher would be to a very young couple

His certificate will show fathers occupation

British Army, Irish Regimental Enlistment Registers 1877-1924
Great Britain


James
Attestation date 15 Feb 1913
Last name Byrne
Age on attestation 24 3/4
Birth year 1889
Attestation place Dublin
Birth place St. Joseph, Dublin
Address on discharge 13 Kilmainham Place, Dublin
Birth county Dublin
Source Source Dataset
Birth country Ireland
Archive National Army Museum
Occupation on enlistment Labourer
Record set British Army, Irish Regimental Enlistment Registers 1877-1924
Regiment Royal Dublin Fusiliers
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Service number 7075325
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Attestation year 1913
Collections from England, Great Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Wales

Possible death

name(s) James
District Manchester
Last name Byrne
County Lancashire
Gender Male
Volume 10E
Birth day -
Page 263
Birth month -
Country England
Birth year 1889
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Age 60
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death quarter 3
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Death year 1949

Margaret ?

Margaret
District St. Helens
Last name Byrne
County Lancashire
Gender Female
Volume 10F
Birth day -
Page 1199
Birth month -
Country England
Birth year 1900
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Age -
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death quarter 1
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Death year 1974

I think Margaret’s birth is incorrect on the 1939 register. I think she was born 13 August 1895 in Kilkenny. Daughter of Patrick, Labourer ( same as marriage certificate) and Kate formerly Bergens.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02203/1832532.pdf

EDIT

She was a twin! Brother John

Party 1 Name PATRICK GLYNN
Party 2 Name KATE BERIGAN
Date of Event 28 July 1889
Group Registration ID 2507742
SR District/Reg Area Kilkenny

Patrick’s father Patrick, a labourer is deceased and Kate’s father Edward, a labourer still alive.

I’m fairly sure this is Margaret’s death. (She would probably admitted her real year of birth to collect her Old Age Pension).

First name(s) Margaret
Last name Byrne
Gender Female
Birth day 13
Birth month 8
Birth year 1895
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1975
District Salford
County Lancashire
Volume 39
Page 1192
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England

PaphosDave, you now have a birth, marriage and death date for your stepdaughter’s Irish born grandmother. Your stepdaughter needs to order copies of those certificates. She will need her own birth certificate (and marriage certificate if applicable), also her parent’s (Margaret Glynn’s child) birth, marriage and death certificate(if deceased). I’m fairly sure that’s what my sister needed when she applied for her Irish passport. ( My grandmother was born in Ireland but her descendants born Scotland)

I believe it is quite costly but good luck to your stepdaughter.

For your step-daughter's interest:

Margaret Glynn
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1911
Name: Margaret Glynn
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 15
Birth Year: abt 1896
Birth Place: Kilkenny City
Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911
House Number: 9
Townland/Street: Walkins Street, Upper
District: Kilkenny No. 1 Urban
County: Kilkenny
Country: Ireland
Electoral District: Kilkenny No. 1 Urban
Literacy: Read write
Language Spoken: English
Occupation: Scholar
Religion: Roman Catholic
Relationship: Niece
URL:
Household Members Age Relationship
Margaret Glynn 55 Head
John Glynn 45 Brother
Henry Glynn 38 Brother
Margaret Glynn 15 Niece



Margaret Glynn
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1901
Name: Margaret Glynn
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 6
Birth Date: abt 1895
Birth Place: Kilkenny City
Residence Date: 31 Mar 1901
House Number: 27.4
Residence Place: Walkinslough, Kilkenny Urban, Kilkenny, Ireland
Relation to Head: Daughter
Occupation: Scholar
Religion: Roman Catholic
Literacy: Cannot read
Household Members Age Relationship
Patrick Glynn 38 Head of Family (Head)
Kate Glynn 29 Wife
Maryann Glynn 11 Daughter
Patrick Joseph Glynn 9 Son
John Glynn 6 Son
Margaret Glynn 6 Daughter
Henry Glynn 2 Son

1911
Residents of a house 28.3 in Walkins Street, Lower (Kilkenny No. 1 Urban, Kilkenny)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living

Glynn Patrick 46 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Kilkenny General Labourer Cannot read - Married - - - -
Glynn Catherine 42 Female Wife Roman Catholic Kilkenny City - Read and write - Married - - - -
Glynn John 15 Male Son Roman Catholic Kilkenny City Tailor Read and write - Single - - - -
Glynn Henry 12 Male Son Roman Catholic Kilkenny City Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Glynn Kathleen 8 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Kilkenny City Scholar

Her brother Patrick :

SR District/Reg Area - Kilkenny
Birth of PATRICK GLYNN in 1892
Name PATRICK GLYNN
Date of Birth 1892 [ 8 May 1892 ]
Group Registration ID 9372116
SR District/Reg Area Kilkenny

Address: Walkin Street <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Father: Patrick Glynn, labourer.
Mother: Kate Glynn, formerly Bergin.


Patrick Glynn
in the Ireland, Prison Registers, 1790-1924
Name: Patrick Glynn
Admission Age: 18
Role: Prisoner
Birth Date: 1892
Birth Place: Walkin St Kilkenny, Kilkenny, Ireland <<<<<<<<<<<
Admission Date: 15 Nov 1910
Admission Place: Kilkenny, Ireland
Charge: BEING A DESERTER FROM 2 BN R M FUSILIERS
Jail: KILKENNY
Identification Number: 539
Parties Involved
Patrick Glynn
Pat Glynn [father]

On remand until 16 Nov 1910. "Handed over to a military escort".


??
Patrick Glynn
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Patrick Glynn
Age in 1911: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Birth Place: Kilkenny, Kilkenny, Ireland
Search Photos:
Country: England
Rank: Private
Military Unit: 1st Roy Muns Fus Sl
Registration District Number: 641
ED, institution, or vessel: India
Piece: 34983


Patrick Glynn
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Patrick Glynn
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 8 May 1892 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 38
Residence Place: Stretford, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Flour Millers Sack Mender
Line Number: 33
Schedule Number: 215
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: NXFC
Borough: Stretford
Registration district: 463/1
Inferred Spouse:
Harriet Glynn
Household Members Age
Patrick Glynn 47
Harriet Glynn 46
[and one closed record ]


Marriages Dec 1918 (99%)
Boswell Harriet Glynn Chorlton 8c 1269
Glynn Patrick Boswell Chorlton 8c 1269


Probably the closed record in 1939:

GLYNN, PATRICK BERNARD mmn BOSWELL
GRO Reference: 1920 J Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 1652


Patrick Bernard Glynn
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Patrick Bernard Glynn
Death Age: 68
Birth Date: 26 Apr 1920
Registration Date: Nov 1988
Registration District: Trafford
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 39
Page: 1895



Harriet Glynn
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Harriet Glynn
Death Age: 74
Birth Date: abt 1894
Registration Date: Apr 1968[May 1968] [Jun 1968]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Barton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 232

Thank you all for bearing with me, info is coming to me in drips and drabs.
The children of James and Margaret are oldest to youngest as far as I can ascertain;
James, born in India
Patrick [aka PADDY]born in Ireland.
Johnny, born in England
Mary, born in Ireland.
Una, born in France.
Christopher Thomas, born in Hulme, Manchester, England 100%
Sheila, possibly in Hulme also
As of this post I have no more to add but I sincerely hope that you good folk do.

That list certainly makes it impossible for them to have been born c1920 as you originally stated

I noted that point about born in 1920 when I did my sums. Going off Christopher's birth in 1938, Margaret would have been only 18 so she couldn't have had the previous 5 kids.. The plot thickens. How on earth do we move on from here? is there a definite on James being in the army in India, as the one [Shirley] listed here was born in Dublin as opposed to Kilkenny which is 100%?

You also need to consider why Una was born in France.

If you have all the names and places of birth you must have an idea of when people were born.

No one can give you a definite on anything. At the end of the day you need to obtain certificates.

You mention a daughter Sheila


Births Mar 1934 (>99%)
Byrne Sheila Glynn Barton I. 8c 780



Sheila Byrne
in the Ohio, U.S., County Marriage Records, 1774-1993
Name: Sheila Byrne
Gender: Female
Age: 21
Birth Date: abt 1934
Marriage Date: 8 May 1955
Marriage Place: Defiance, Ohio, USA
Father: James Byrne
Mother: Margaret Glynn
Spouse: Kenneth Lamar Wolf
Film Number: 001977647


Sheila Wolf
in the U.S., Find a Grave Index, 1600s-Current
Name: Sheila Wolf
Birth Date: 28 Jan 1934
Birth Place: Stretford, Metropolitan Borough of Trafford, Greater Manchester, England
Death Date: 11 Jan 2011
Death Place: Adrian, Lenawee County, Michigan, United States of America
Cemetery: Riverside Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Defiance, Defiance County, Ohio, United States of America
Has Bio?: N
Spouse: Kenneth L. Wolf

PaphosDave, apart from the burial places, I think you have been given the BMDs for both James and Margaret also the names of their parents, some of their siblings and some census records.

The birth records of the children of James and Margaret may prove more difficult as they occurred less than 100 years ago. None of the children’s deaths have been picked up to allow their entries on the 1939 register to be opened.

EDIT

By the way, there are 8 closed records on the 1939 register.

???


First name(s) Una M
Last name Byrne
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1950
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ Una M Byrne married one of these people
Harry Rimmer
Spouse's last name Rimmer
District Salford
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 10F


First name(s) Una Margaret
Last name Rimmer
Gender Female
Birth day 4
Birth month 7
Birth year 1930
Age -
Death quarter 3
Registration Month 8
Death year 1988
District Salford
Register number 888


(c) brightsolid online publishing ltd

Rootgatherer posted James's birth on page 1.

???
James Byrne
in the Ireland, Prison Registers, 1790-1924
Name: James Byrne
Admission Age: 22
Role: Prisoner
Birth Date: 1889
Birth Place: Kilkenny, Kilkenny, Ireland
Admission Date: 12 Dec 1911
Admission Place: Kilkenny, Ireland
Charge: RECEIVING ONE Cook [COCK on image ] TURKEY KNOWING IT TO BE STOLEN
Jail: KILKENNY
Identification Number: 522
Parties Involved
James Byrne
Jas Byrne (father)

Pleaded not guilty.
Sentenced to 1 month hard labour.



James Byrne
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1911
Name: James Byrne
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1889
Birth Place: Kilkenny City
Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911
House Number: 42
Townland/Street: Michael Street
District: Kilkenny No. 2 Urban
County: Kilkenny
Country: Ireland
Electoral District: Kilkenny No. 2 Urban
Literacy: Read and write
Occupation: General Labourer
Religion: Roman Catholic
Relationship: Son
URL:
Household Members Age Relationship
George Carthew 11 Grand Son (Grandson)
Mary Byrne 65 Head
Thomas Byrne 32 Son
James Byrne 22 Son


Jamesy Byrne
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1901
Name: Jamesy Byrne
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Age: 11
Birth Date: abt 1890
Birth Place: Kilkenny
Residence Date: 31 Mar 1901
House Number: 1
Residence Place: John's Green, Kilkenny Urban, Kilkenny, Ireland
Relation to Head: Son
Occupation: Attending School (Scholar)
Religion: R C
Literacy: Read and write
Household Members Age Relationship
Mary Byrne 55 Head of Family (Head)
Mollie Byrne 12 Daughter
Kate Carthew 24 Daughter
Patrick Byrne 19 Son
Jamesy Byrne 11 Son
Sydney Carthew 1 Grand Son (Grandson)



Age is wrong - but maybe ??

BYRNE, JAMES PATRICK 49
GRO Reference: 1945 J Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 551

James Byrne
in the UK, British Army World War I Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: James Byrne
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1889
Birth Place: St Johns Kilkenny, Kilkenny
Age: 23
Document Year: 1912
Regimental Number: 11260
Regiment Name: Royal Dublin Fusiliers
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Number of Images: 16
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
James Byrne Self (Head)
James Byrne Father
Elder Michael Byrne Brother

Discharged 6/4/1914 for misconduct.
"Conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline - ie - improperly in possession of a pair of boots, the property of a comrade."

Quite a long list of previous misdemeanours - various instances of drunkenness, absence, not complying with orders, etc.

Address of father James and brother Michael - 14 Michael Street, Kilkenny. (as in 1911 census already posted )