Genealogy Chat

Hi ErikaH,
Many thanks for the continued info.

Gary

Marriages Dec 1948 (>99%)
Farrier Reginald J Weller Battle 5h 61
Weller Eileen L Farrier Battle 5h 61

First name(s) EILEEN LOUISE
Last name FARRIER
Gender Female
Birth day 25
Birth month 9
Birth year 1925
Age -
Death quarter 4
Death year 1999
District Hastings & Rother

Marriages Sep 1951 (>99%)
JEMISON Rosemary S WELLER Ashford 5b 89
WELLER Gordon K JEMISON Ashford 5b 89

Deaths Dec 1980 (>99%)
WELLER GORDON KENNETH 14OC1926 ASHFORD 16 50 (Birth year wrong)

Marriages Mar 1951 (>99%)
WELLER Patricia M L WILLIAMS Battle 5h 51
WILLIAMS Charles J H WELLER Battle 5h 51

First name(s) PATRICIA MAUD L
Last name WILLIAMS
Gender Female
Birth day 23
Birth month 10
Birth year 1931
Death quarter 2
Death year 1993
District Surrey South Eastern

I'll answer your questions now -

1939 register (not a census) is on Find My Past and Ancestry (both subscription sites)

"The record for this person is officially closed"

For individual people, records remain closed for a century after their birth (the 100-year rule), unless it can be proven that they passed away before this milestone. Use the ‘Open This Record’ button if you believe that this person is now deceased

Winifred in 1939

58 Cadbow Street, Rye M.B., Sussex, England
Thomas W Weller 01 Nov 1877 Male Permanent Way Labourer Married 229 1
Ellen Weller 10 Dec 1875 Female Invalid Wife Married 229 2
Frederick W Moody 04 Oct 1903 Male Labourer Catchment Board Married 229 3
Winifred Moody 25 Dec 1914 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 229 4
William G Hammond 26 Feb 1914 Male Permanent Way Labourer Heavy Worker Single 229 5

One possible child for Frederick and Winifred on freebmd

Frederick's death

Deaths Sep 1967 (>99%)
Moody Frederick W 63 Battle 5h 7

and Winifred's

First name(s) WINIFRED
Last name MOODY
Gender Female
Birth day 25
Birth month 12
Birth year 1914
Death quarter 3
Death year 2000
District Southampton
District number 5001E
Register number E22A
Entry number 020
Date of registration mm/yy 0800

Hi ErikaH
Many thanks for the info, your amazing. I will need a some time to digest this information. I can be a bit slow at times, like getting my dads birth date wrong, I have his marriage cert in front of me, and I miscalculated his birth year. You might have to talk me through the 1939 info, firstly where can I access the census of 1939, and what are closed records ? . I will come back to you in a few days regarding Winifred Weller / Moody , i'm still trying to get my head around it all.
PS; Louisa Weller nee Wait, sadly died 10 days after giving birth to my granddad Charles Alfred Weller.
Many thanks and Stay Safe
Gary :-)

WELLER, CHARLES ALFRED (MMN) WAIT
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in RYE Volume 02B Page 2

Marriages Dec 1900 (>99%)
Wait Louisa Rye 2b 13
Weller Thomas William Rye 2b 13

Deaths Mar 1903 (>99%)
Weller Louisa 23 Rye 2b 1

Looks like she may have died in childbirth

Thomas re-married -

Marriages Dec 1912 (>99%)
Weller Thomas W Wenham Rye 2b 7
Wenham Ellen Weller Rye 2b 7

Probate for second wife

Name: Ellen Weller (widow)
Death Date: 27 Jul 1950
Death Place: Sussex, England
Probate Date: 6 Oct 1950
Probate Registry: London, England
Probate to Winifred Moody, wife of Frederick William Moody

Marriages Dec 1937 (>99%)
Moody Frederick W Weller Battle 2b 149
Weller Winifred Moody Battle 2b 149

Name: Winifred Weller
Mother's Maiden Name: Wenham
Registration Year: 1915
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Rye
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 5

1939 for your grandparents

3 closed records, of which one will be your father

7 Cadboro Terrace, Rye M.B., Sussex, England

Charles A Weller 03 Jan 1903 Male Railway Signalman Married 86 1
Winifred V Weller 13 Dec 1903 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 86 2
Eileen L Farrier (Weller) 25 Sep 1925 Female At School Single 86 3
Gordon K Weller 14 Oct 1927 Male At School Single 86 4
The record for this person is officially closed.x 3
Patricia M L Williams (Weller) 23 Oct 1931 Female

How did you manage to get the wrong year for your father’s birth?The record is on freebmd

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

And here's his death from FMP with actual DOB


First name(s) HAROLD GEORGE
Last name WELLER
Gender Male
Birth day 28
Birth month 4
Birth year 1929
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1996
District Hastings & Rother
District number 4561C
Register number C57A
Entry number 173

How did I find the family you THINK is yours in 1861 - as I said in the posts - variant spelling of surname.

Not impossible but unlikely that a man born 1850/1 would be marrying in 1866

The marriage you site is for a Thomas (not a Thomas William) Weller.

None of the records to go with the family you think are yours have him as Thomas William.

He's shown as single in both 1871 and 1881

You say "your" Thomas William dies in 1882, but the one you think he is is Thomas and is still alive in 1891

Please look at the info and take us through the proven facts working back from yourself

EDIT - just seen your above reply.

You can't make (or assume that) families "fit". You have to prove from one generation to the next, working backwards. People's trees are full of things that "fit", but it's surprising how many of them actually don't.

Erika,
Many thanks, your obviously far more experienced at this than I. I'm amazed that the family of Wellers in Pluckley fitted so nicely into my family. I have know found the Mellers, and they do look more like my Wellers. PS I will update my dads age shortly,
Once again Thank you
Gary Weller

I worked from FACTS found by starting with the man whose Probate you asked about

It seems to me that you have started at the ‘wrong’ end instead of starting from yourself and working back, which is the correct way to research family history

I had worked out that Charles was your grandfather.

BTW, your father was born in 1929

HI, Greyghost,
Many thanks for the info census 1861, I don't know how you found it but thank you, However I appreciate that in the census of 1881 Thomas is recorded as single, but this could mean he is no longer married, I have evidence that Thomas William Weller b1850/51 married Jane Russell in 1866,
England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Volume 2A, Page 706 Line 90,

Hi ErikaH, if Thomas William Weller b 1850/51 wasn't born until 1856c as you claim, how did I find him in the census of 1851, he wouldn't have been born by your dates.
I'm very interested in your last your last mail, Ive not come across this Weller entry, and I need time to take this information in, the names do look familiar, Charles Weller was my grandfather and I'm keen to get the right information
Thank you for your assistance, and I will come back to you shortly
Gary

Gary.....................

Look carefully at all the info posted, please.

The Thomas you think is " yours" is still single in 1881 and living with his parents - unlikely to have had a child in 1877.

What are your known, proven facts?

ErikaH appears to have found the man you're looking for.


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
2, Pictoria Cottages, Pluckley and Pevington, West Ashford, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Weller Head Married Male 61 1820 Ag Lab Hothfield, Kent, England
Hannah Weller Wife Married Female 56 1825 - Little Chart, Kent, England
Thomas Weller Son Single Male 30 1851 Invalid Pluckley, Kent, England
Amy Weller Daughter Single Female 25 1856 Cook Domestic Serv Pluckley, Kent, England
Arthur Weller Son Single Male 16 1865 Groom 8.1 Pluckley, Kent, England

----------------------------

and alive and single 1891

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Victoria Cottages, Lamden Road, Pluckley, West Ashford, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Hannah Weller Head Widow Female 67 1824 - Little Chart, Kent, England
Thomas Weller Son Single Male 39 1852 - Pluckley, Kent, England
John Weller Son Single Male 37 1854 General Laborer Pluckley, Kent, England
Henry Oliver Boarder Single Male 27 1864 Railway Signalman Tenterden, Kent, England

I'm sorry, but the father of Thomas William born 1877 was NOT born 1851 - he was born c1856.

You should work backwards from yourself - as I did

Posting AGAIN

Name: Thomas William Weller
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Birth Date: 1856******************************************
Marriage Date: 6 Oct 1877
Marriage Place: Iden,Sussex,England
Father: William Weller
Spouse: Elizabeth Swadling
FHL Film Number: 1067258

All 3 census show him as only Thomas (has a brother William ) and his birth registration is Thomas.

Living same place in 1861 as in 1851. Variant spelling of surname only difference

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Pluckley, West Ashford, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Weller Head Married Male 31 1820 Ag Laboror Hothfield, Kent, England
Hanah Weller Wife Married Female 26 1825 - Little Chart, Kent, England
James Weller Son - Male 8 1843 Scholar Pluckley, Kent, England
Sarah Weller Daughter - Female 5 1846 Scholar Pluckley, Kent, England
William Weller Son - Male 2 1849 - Pluckley, Kent, England
Thomas Weller Son - Male 0 1851 - Pluckley, Kent, England

WELLER, SARAH ANN COPPINS
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in WEST ASHFORD Volume 05 Page 19

WELLER, THOMAS COPPINS
GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in WEST ASHFORD Volume 05 Page 23

Surname spelling differs, check variants

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
The Thorn, Pluckley, West Ashford, Kent, England

Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Wellar Head Married Male 40 1821 Agricultural Labourer Hothfield, Kent, England
Hannah Wellar Wife Married Female 35 1826 - Little Chart, Kent, England
William Wellar Son - Male 13 1848 Agricultural Labourer Pluckley, Kent, England
Thomas Wellar Son - Male 10 1851 Agricultural Labourer Pluckley, Kent, England
John Wellar Son - Male 8 1853 Scholar Pluckley, Kent, England
Amy Wellar Daughter - Female 5 1856 Scholar Pluckley, Kent, England
Richard Wellar Son - Male 3 1858 - Pluckley, Kent, England


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:

WELLER, AMY COPPINS
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in WEST ASHFORD Volume 02A Page 439

Hi All,
Firstly sorry for the late response, and thank you all for responding I didn’t realise you would all respond so fast.
Ok I have Thomas William Weller born 1851 in the census of that year, he’s a few months old. His parents are James Weller b 1820 and his mother is Hannah Weller nee Coppins. I have Thomas William Weller in the census of 1871 aged 20 living in Challock Kent, he’s a boarder there, I have him in 1881, and I know he dies in 1882. Thomas has a son also named Thomas William Weller b1877 which can cause some confusion, and I’ve found him until he dies in 1949.
But I cannot find Thomas William Weller b 1851 who would be aged 9 or 10 in the census of 1861. Where else can I look
Many thanks Gary

baptism

First name(s) Thomas William
Last name Weller
Gender Male
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1877
Baptism date 09 Dec 1877
Place Iden
County Sussex
Country England
Father's first name(s) Thomas William
Father's last name Weller
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth

The other thread was simply a request for info about accessing Probate records. The date was posted after I asked a question. No other info on there.

I knew about the other thread simply because I'd added to it

Everything I've posted on here stems from that Probate date

1881

Name: Thomas W. Meller
[Thomas W. Weller]
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: Thomas Meller
Mother: Elizabeth Meller
Gender: Male
Where born: Iden, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Playden
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street address: Rye Turnpike Gate House
Registration district: Rye
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1018
Folio: 46
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Meller 25
Elizabeth Meller 32
Thomas W. Meller 3
Mary Ann Swadling 63
George Swadling 23