Genealogy Chat

As of 19/11/19, FreeBMD had 8 quarters not essentially complete thru 1983m viz:

Births Dec 1964 (98%)
Births Sep 1982 (73%)
==========================
Marriages Mar 1964 (76%)
Marriages Sep 1969 (74%)
Marriages Dec 1969 (8%)
Marriages Dec 1980 (97%)
==========================
Deaths Mar 1975 (99%)
Deaths Sep 1980 (77%)
==========================

Staffordshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1950[q4]
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HILL Doreen E BRAYFORD Walter Civil Marriage (Newcastle-Under-Lyme) Newcastle-Under-Lyme R/22A/70


There are 5 Brayford-Hill births in STS 1951q1-1963q1 (bbgbg).
There is a 1963q2 Bolton birth, but there's also a 1963 Bolton area Brayford-Hill marr.

I've not given their kids' forenames

Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
1951 BRAYFORD xxx HILL London Road (City General Hospital) Stoke-On-Trent CGH/18/097
1955 BRAYFORD xxx Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Newcastle-Under-Lyme NCB/37/327
1957 BRAYFORD xxx Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Newcastle-Under-Lyme NCB/42/217
1960 BRAYFORD xxx Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Newcastle-Under-Lyme NCB/47/2
1963 BRAYFORD xxx HILL London Road (City General Hospital) Stoke-On-Trent CGH/55/289

Deaths Jun 1981 (>99%)
BRAYFORD DOREEN 4JY1927 STOKE/T 30 1691

Deaths Dec 2004
BRAYFORD Walter 09 Feb 1924 Stoke On Trent 737/1 E84F
Source https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVZV-M478

The above death for Doreen is the only one I can find. It's unusual to get the day of a b'day wrong (the year is much less unusual).
It could be confusion in 1939, or by the d.rego informant.
[One of my grandad's uncles was rego'ed by the uncle's grandad - when he came to the place of marr, he switched my gg gran's marr with her sister (it was a Scottish b,rego).]

It looks like 1839 is OK
Births Mar 1926 (>99%)
Hill Doreen E Lawson Newcastle L. 6b 64 Scan available - click to view

Re Arthur Hill


Durham Light Infantry

12th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Newcastle in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under orders of 68th Brigade in 23rd Division. Moved to Aldershot in November. Moved to Willesborough (Kent) in February 1915 and went on in May to Bramshott.
26 August 1915 : landed at Boulogne.
Moved with Division to Italy in November 1917.

13th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Newcastle in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under orders of 68th Brigade in 23rd Division. Record same as 12th Bn.
14 September 1918 : left 23rd Division and returned to France, joining 74th Brigade in 25th Division at St Riquier on 19 September 1918.
A signals section of the 13th (Service) Battalion, Durham Light Infantry, equipped with telescopes, field telephone and signalling lamps, watch the battalion's advance on Veldhoek on 20 September 1917. Battle of the Menin Road. Imperial War Museum image Q5971

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/durham-light-infantry/

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There is a typo in:
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/23rd-division/

The order of battle of the 23rd Division
68th Brigade
...
12th (Service) Bn, the Durham Light Infantry
12th (Service) Bn, the Durham Light Infantry left 14 September 1918
...

Should read

The order of battle of the 23rd Division
68th Brigade
...
12th (Service) Bn, the Durham Light Infantry
13th (Service) Bn, the Durham Light Infantry left 14 September 1918
...

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http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/25th-division/

alviegal thank you so much for all that information - the move to Marrion St Birkenhead is right as other family members have been traced there although the property does now not exist.

Do you have any links where I can view the military notes or obtain photographs? Maybe you are able to email me some information.

Many thanks

Martin

So Alf is probably Florrie's husband.


Maybe??

Marriages Sep 1930 (>99%)
Bates Alfred Hill Stoke T. 6b 395
Hill Florence Bates Stoke T. 6b 395


This would be them in 1939 but Florence's birthdate isn't quite right.


1939 Register logo

17 Seaford Street, Stoke-On-Trent C.B., Staffordshire, England

Bates household
(5 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Alfred Bates 15 Jun 1902 Male Iron Moulder (Heavy Worker) Married 94 1
Florence Bates 05 Mar 1903 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 94 2
Brian Bates 14 Feb 1932 Male At School Single 94 3
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

Perhaps Dolly is Dorothy? Dorothy Frances Parrish.


Marriages Dec 1926 (>99%)

Hill Albert E Parrish Stoke T. 6b 308
Parrish Dorothy F Hill Stoke T 6b 308


1939 Register logo

24 Chamberlain Street, Stoke-On-Trent C.B., Staffordshire, England

Hill household
(4 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Albert E Hill 26 Aug 1901 Male Railway Locomotive Fireman Married 178 1
Dorothy J Hill 29 Feb 1904 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 178 2
Graham Hill 30 Apr 1933 Male At School Single 178 3
Maureen Amison (Hill) 28 Apr 1938 Female Under School Age Single 178 4


Births Jun 1933 (>99%)
HILL Graham Parrish Stoke T. 6b 228

Births Jun 1938 (>99%)
Hill Maureen Parrish Stoke 6b 321



First name(s) ALBERT ERNEST
Last name HILL
Gender Male
Birth day 26
Birth month 8
Birth year 1901
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1977
District Stoke on Trent
County Staffordshire
Volume 30
Page 2009


https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=hill&yearOfDeath=1977&page=2#calendar

Lilian Gladys in 1939.

Lillian Hill's life in 1939
38 Beattie Avenue, Newcastle-Under-Lyme M.B., Staffordshire, England

Hill household
(8 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Lillian Hill 07 May 1901 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 214 1
Reginald Hill 31 Jul 1924 Male Apprentice Bricklayer Single 214 2
Doreen (Evelyn) Brayford (Hill) 14 Feb 1926 Female At School Single 214 3
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
Sheila (M) Shenton (Hill) 03 Nov 1938 Female Under School Age Single 214 7
Thomas Mulliner 26 Mar 1890 Male Marl Worker Unemployed Single 214 8



Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
HILL Reginald E LAWSON Newcastle L 6b 73


Births Mar 1926 (>99%)
Hill Doreen E Lawson Newcastle L. 6b 64


??

Hill Sheila M Lawson Newcastle L. 6b 81

Two notices in the Staffordshire Sentinel 31 May 1930

HILL In loving memory of Harold, the beloved husband of Lilian Hill of 2 Fogg St, Newcastle who died May 31st 1929.
Love's Last Gift- Remembrance
Fondly remembered by his wife and children.


HILL In loving memory of Arthur Harold Hill of 2 Fogg St, Newcastle, late of Shelton, who died May 31st 1929
Always remembered by Mother, Ernest, Florrie, Dolly and Alf and all at Shelton.


Possible marriage?

Marriages Jun 1922 (>99%)
HILL Arthur H Lawson Newcastle L 6b 129 Scan available - click to view
LAWSON Lilian G Hill Newcastle under Lyme 6b 129 Scan available - click to view


5 possible children can be found on freebmd. Will not post in case they are still living.

Arthur Harold Hill who's military record is posted above, sends a letter asking for his medals awarded to him 3 months prior, to be sent to 27 Chamberlain Street, Shelton, Stoke-on-Trent. Gertrude is at that address in 1939.

He also informs them that he is moving from 79 Marion St, Birkenhead to the above adddress. He was awarded 5s 6d per week as a result of 'explosion and shrapnel in both legs.'

Another note asks when he will be receiving his pension as he is now blind in one eye. He had applied in September and it was now end of November. He was single.



Staffordshire Sentinel 08 July 1918

Mrs Hill, 27 Chamberlain Street Shelton, has received official news that her son Pte. Harold Hill, Lewis Gun Section Durham Light Infantry, has been missing since the 27th of May. Previous to joining the army he was employed at Messrs. Geo. Ridgway and sons.



Staffordshire Sentinel 20 August 1918

PRISONERS OF WAR. Pte. Harold Hill, Durham Light Infantry, son of Mrs. Hill, 27. Chamberlain-street, Shelton, is a prisoner of war in Germany.

Purely for confirmation re Gertrude

Name: Gertrude Turner
Gender: Female
Age: 23
Birth Date: 1875
Marriage Date: 1898
Marriage Place: Wellington, Stafford, England
Father: Alfred Turner
Spouse: George Hill
FHL Film Number: 1471183
Reference ID: 2:26KPPHT

Think this is Gertrude in 1939. She is widowed not married.


27 Chamberlain Street, Stoke-On-Trent C.B., Staffordshire, England

Samuel Mason 28 May 1912 Male Gas Producer Corp Gas W? Married 161 1
Florence W Mason 08 Jul 1914 Female Potters Sponger Married 161 2
Gertrude Hill 15 Mar 1874 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 161 3

Think she dies in 1942.


Did you know there was another child, Doris who died?

Birth
HILL, DORIS TURNER
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in STOKE-UPON-TRENT Volume 06B Page 199

Death
HILL, DORIS 0
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in STOKE-UPON-TRENT Volume 06B Page 122

Well, unless they married, there won’t have been any legitimate children, so looking for children for the males is pointless until you find IF they married

And you need to search using their correct birth names - not those used on 1911 census

If you have exact date of birth it would help to find Florence on the 1939 register.

Erica I am struggling to find out who They married hence why I cant find the children.

Don 't use GR for research - it's very little use for that.

The usefulness of GR lies in the members who give their help

Your post gives birth years, but no indication of who any of them married - IF they did.

Name: Gertrude Turner
Gender: Female
Age: 23
Birth Date: abt 1875
Marriage Date: 9 Aug 1898
Marriage Place: Wellington, Staffordshire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: Alfred Turner
Spouse: George Hill
Search Photos: Search for 'Wellington, Staffordshire, England' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection

Name: Selina Bettany
Registration Year: 1871
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Stoke upon Trent
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 242
to Alfred Turner


the army record already posted above
getrude named as mother

Volume 6B
Page 222
Entry Number
Line Number 228


please can you confirm if this the same person as below -

Arthur Harold
Last name Hill
Age 17
Birth year 1899
Birth county Staffordshire
Birth country England
Service number 81287
Regiment Durham Light Infantry
Unit / Battalion 13th Traning Reserve Barralion, No 5th Provisional Company
Year 1917
Series WO 363
Series description Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'
Archive
The National Archives

The other thing that is out of place with George is his occupation as he was an engine driver. How certain can we be that this is the right marriage - sorry to be a pain Maddie

Yes thats the one

florences marriage
george only named as father, he didn't sign it
a witness was Harry ??? harold

it would seem so

i know you have this
1911
Gertrude Hill
[Gertrude Poole]
Age in 1911: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Hanley, Staffordshire
Civil Parish: Hanley
Search Photos: Search for 'Hanley' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 4 Harcourt Street, Hanley, Stoke on Trent
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: At Home
Registration district: Stoke upon Trent
Registration District Number: 361
Sub-registration district: Hanley
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 274
Piece: 16536
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur Poole 50
Selina Poole 58
Gertrude Hill 36
Harold Hill 11
Ernest Hill 9
Florence Hill 8
Gladys Poole 6

and together in 1901
Arthur Poole 40
Selina Poole 51
Florence Poole 15
Gertrude Hill 26
Harold Hill 7/12

Name: Gertrude Turner
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 9 Aug 1898
Marriage Place: Wellington, Stafford, England
Spouse: George Hill
FHL Film Number: 1471183