Genealogy Chat

Renee Holmes was born in Preston Lancashire in 1923 and died in County Durham 1966 aged 43.
Her parents were John Holmes and Ethel nee Anyon. Renee married Roger Rothwell or Roger Alfred Gordon Rothwell sometime before 1947 as their first child was born that year in Bury Lancashire.
I’ve looked on the Lancs. b.m.d but can’t find anything relating to their marriage.

There are two other people in Genes with her in their tree but the trees aren’t active anymore so I can’t get in touch.

I would be grateful if someone could help in finding the correct name of Roger where and when they married and also a possible death for Roger.
I don’t know where and when Roger was born other than 1925c
Thank you.

1939
17 Rhiwlas Drive, Bury C.B., Lancashire, England

Renei Rothwell (Holmes) 07 May 1923 Female At School Single 129 3
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

maybe tthey never married

do you have the birth cert of the child to give fathers details

I did think of that Maddie so yes I think I would be better to get the birth certificate of Renee.

no, birth cert of renees child :-)

Sorry. My mistake
Looked on Free b.m.d and information says her surname at death was Holmes so maybe she didn’t marry or they divorced and she went back to her maiden name.

Her children were Felicity Freya Fleur born in Bury Lancashire 1947.
Roger Igor Manfred Peter born 1948 also in Bury
Roger Anthony John born 1950 but in Gravesend. Kent.

The 1st Roger must have died before 1950.
Mash

The only mention of Roger Alfred Gordon Rothwell that I can find is in army records:

R. A. G. Rothwell
in the UK, British Army Lists, 1882-1962
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: R. A. G. Rothwell
Military Year: 1942
Regiment: The Border Regiment
Rank: 2nd Lieutenant


R. A. G. Rothwell
in the UK, British Army Lists, 1882-1962
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: R. A. G. Rothwell
Military Year: 1943
Regiment: The Border Regiment
Rank: 2nd Lieutenant



In the London Gazette:
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35448/supplement/649/data.pdf

Roger Alfred Gordon Rothwell (224655)


Can't see a definite birth or death for him.

What made you particularly pick up on that name? Is he named on one of the children's birth certs?


The only Roger Rothwell birth I can see around the time you say is this one - but no middle initials:

Births Sep 1921 (>99%)
Rothwell Roger Beardsworth Bolton 8c 822

Someone called Jennifer has a Roger Rothwell born 1921 in her GR tree - but no middle initials listed, and no POB.


The Roger born in Bolton in 1921 may have married in Bolton in 1949.
Seems to have had two children born in Macclesfield, and may have been living in Macclesfield per 2009 ER.
No middle initials on marriage nor ER.

Felicity has him listed as her father in her tree on Genes with his name as Roger Alfred Gordon Rothwell born 1920 but but Rachel the daughter of Felicity has him listed only as Roger born in 1925. Both have no place of birth. Roger would have been Rachel’s grandfather.
Both Felicity and Rachel’s trees are not active anymore.

You should remove the actual D O B of the son who may be alive.

You are breaking site rules, and invading his privacy

Having said that, there isn't a birth on freebmd to tally with your info - nor is there a death for Roger I on freebmd

The only Roger A J is in a different year and the MMN isn't Holmes

So, please remove his DOB, as he clearly isn't connected to your relative

Have you done any checking of the info you quote?

Seems perhaps you haven't been able to......................

From FMP

Rothwell Roger Igor Manfred Peter 1949 2008 2008 United Kingdom Deaths 2007-2017 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

First name(s) Roger Igor Manfred Peter
Last name Rothwell
Death year 2008
Death date 25 Jan 2008
Probate year 2008
Probate date 16 Apr 2008
Registry Manchester
Registry county Lancashire
Country England
Document type Grant and will

Don't ever take other people's info as accurate unless they show documentary proof. Always check everything yourself or you'll end up with a tree which is a work of fiction

The image of 1939 for Renee quotes a marriage date of 24/12/46, but I can't see anything to support that suggestion.

Roger A G's marriage - in Scotland

ROTHWELL
ROGER A G
SEY
ALICE GORDON
1941
280/ 5
Craig

Renee's death cert might prove useful The informant's details might be enlightening

A tree on Ancestry - which seems to have several photos of Renee - states that she 'did not marry'

However, that tree owner also says she had a second son named Roger, which is improbable.

That birth was in 1949 (NOT 1950 as you quote) and the MMN wasn't Holmes

That one is alleged to have died in 2003 in Suffolk - no record on FMP

Mr
First name(s) Roger Igor Manfred Peter
Last name Rothwell
Sex Male
Age 59
Birth year 1949
Birth date 00/00/1949
Death year 2008
Death date 25 Jan 2008
Place Nottingham
Area Nottingham
Geo direction East Midlands
Postcode area NG
Postcode district NG7
Postcode sector NG7 6
County Nottinghamshire

ROGER I M P
Last name ROTHWELL
Birth year 1948
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Holmes
District Manchester
County Lancashire

Sent you some info by PM

Please be careful how you use it

Alice Gordon Sey born 1915 in Aberdeenshire, and the marriage also in Aberdeenshire.

No children in Aberdeenshire, nor England/Wales.

Don't know if the same person or not, living alone (at least with no other Rothwell of voting age) in both 1950 and 1951:

Alice G Rothwell
in the Aberdeen City and Former Counties of Aberdeenshire, Scotland, Electoral Registers, 1832-1976
Name: Alice G Rothwell
Record Type: Electoral Roll
Residence Year: 1950
Street address: The Manse
Residence Place: Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Parliamentary Division: Parliamentary County of Aberdeen; Kincardine: Western Division


Possible death ??? :

Mrs Alice Rothwell
in the England and Wales, Death Index, 1989-2018
Name: Mrs Alice Rothwell
Gender: Female
Age: 88
Birth Date: 17 Nov 1915
Last Residence: Bury, Lancashire, England
Postal Code District: BL0
Death Date: 28 Feb 2003


If that's her, a good reason why Roger didn't marry Renee.

Maddie

Your post has come up twice

Repeats what I found earlier

posted to show date of birth

Unfortunately, the DOB is not shown

Renee's probate reads

HOLMES or ROTHWELL Renee of 96 Bates Avenue Darlington died 17 May 1966 at Winterton Hospital Sedgefield County Durham PROBATE Durham 28th July to Dorothy Stebbings spinster and John Holmes engineer £3786

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=holmes&yearOfDeath=1966&page=11#calendar

Thank you for that. Renee died in tragic circumstances. John Holmes was her father but not sure who Dorothy Stebbings was. I don’t think she was a family member so maybe a friend.
Mash