Genealogy Chat

What do you mean, June?

Do you feel that the records people have posted here on your thread may not be the correct ones?

You say your grandmother's name was Louisa Rose Nancy Beatrice.
There is no Morris birth of anyone of that name.

As the Louisa we have found was just Louisa on both her birth and marriage certs, chances are that she did not have those middle names.

I know that all those names are on her death cert - but info on a death cert depends on what the informant believes to be correct - which isn't always the case.

Was your uncle the informant?

Her probate record is listed twice - once with all the names, and again with just Louisa.
The entry with all the names says,
"Bullock, Louisa rose Nancy Beatrice, otherwise Louisa . . . . . . .,"

The entry with just Louisa refers us to the one with all the names.


As Greyghost said, in the 1939 Register entry previously posted, the name Rose has been crossed out, and Louisa inserted.
It looks as if she was known in the family as Rose, but was actually Louisa.

The initials RNB may have been added to the 1939 entry when her death info was received by the people who update the 1939 Register.

There maybe a family link in some of these threads

You do not have to follow a legal process to start using a new name.
But you might need a ‘deed poll’ to apply for or to change official documents like your passport or driving licence.
https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll

Shirley posted her birth record on page 1 - registered just as Louisa.

Her parents Reuben and Mary Ellen (nee Gavin) are together in 1901 in Salford. - but Louisa's not with them.

Nor is the daughter Rosie/Rosa, born 1899.

Further PM from June - have replied and hopefully steered her back to the thread

Thank you for your reply. I am going to try to see if I can find any more information about Louisa Morris. She was my maternal grandmother and apparently her full name was Louisa Rose Nancy Beatrice Bullock maiden name Morris but her marriage certificate only says Louisa Morris. My Uncle put Louisa Rose Nancy Beatrice on the headstone , my Mother’s names were Rose Nancy Beatrice. I knew my Grandmother well but to me she was just Gran. This shows you should ask them about their life while you can.
Could you tell me where I see the thread you mention. Thank you

Pm from June - have replied and once again asked her to return to the thread - having explained how to do that before.


"In answer to your query about showing occupation of the father of the above named person
As I mentioned, it says deceased on the marriage certificate but does say under profession he was a Collier.
There was two witnesses, one Elizabeth Bullock, the other Richard Wright
The Church was St ( Simon ) I think it says. In Salford in the county of Lancaster.
Would this help to further my research, as I am fairly new to finding out how to find deceased relative details."

Have suggested we have probably "sorted out" the family and it's time to buy a certificate or two.

Via https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1871 to 1875
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BROUGH Mary LAWTON Thomas Odd Rode, All Saints Cheshire East 1068/1/109

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876 to 1880
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LAWTON Mary MORRIS Reuben Odd Rode, All Saints Cheshire East 1068/1/238

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1890
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MORRIS Reuben GODBERT Harriet Salford St George Salford C37/3/377

Using http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 20 Dec 1890 St George, Pendleton, Lancs.
Reuben Morris - (X), 41, Collier, Widower, 14 Back Chapel Place
Harriet Godbert - 37, Spinster, 26 William St.
Bride's Father: Robert Godbert, Weaver
Witness: William Henry Smith; Emily Elvina Reynolds
Married by Banns by: Fred K. Peacock, Curate
Register: Marriages 1885 - 1893, Page 189, Entry 377
Source: Manchester Central Library

A search at
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2962/
for Harriet Godbert marr 1890
will get the above m.cert if you have a sub (I don't, sorry)


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1905
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MORRIS Reuben GAVIN Mary E Salford Register Office or Registrar Attended Salford SAL/94/187




If you've got an Ancestry sub, go to Ancestry abd click on Search in the main banner bar.
Select Card Catalog from the drop-down to search the card catalog.
Make sure you're restricted to the UK & Ireland (in the left margin), then add a filter to get BMDs including Parish.
Search for the keyword Manchester. There are 11 interesting hits, incl
"Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915".
You can look stuff up there.

FS has a subset of these, but they're not fully indexed. I go to
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1788853
and beneath the main search box, I click on
Browse through 248,202 images, then county. It's nearly all LAN, with the exceptions of

CHS
Staleybridge, Ashton-under-Lyne
WRY
Dobcross, Holy Trinity
Lydgate, St Anne
Saddleworth, St Chad
Saddleworth, St Thomas

When I see the church is there, I back up by clicking on the header
England, Manchester, Parish Registers, 1603-1910
and use the search. I got no hits, so I presume this bit is unindexed, so I revert to browsing.

A search down the path
England, Manchester, Parish Registers, 1603-1910 > Lancashire > Gorton, St James > Baptisms, 1892-1901 > Image 149 of 300
gets Louisa's bp
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6LR9-C2X?i=148&wc=M6FC-TZ9%3A143838901%2C152962501%2C153112301&cc=1788853

I didn't check any siblings.

PM sent to June as new poster asking her to return to thread.

Her parents in 1841 - but no sign of a son Henry - so Henry in 1861 census isn't Reuben's uncle:

William Morrey
in the 1841 England Census
Name: William Morrey
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1796
Gender: Male
Where born: Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Sandbach
Hundred: Nantwich
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: Congleton
Sub-registration district: Sandbach
Neighbors:
Piece: 118
Book: 4
Folio: 4
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
William Morrey 45
Hannah Morrey 50

Reuben's mother Hannah in 1841:

Hannah Morris
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Hannah Morris
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Sandbach
Hundred: Nantwich
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: Congleton
Sub-registration district: Sandbach
Neighbors:
Piece: 118
Book: 2
Folio: 8
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
James Moseley 20
Sarah Moseley 20
Daniel Moseley 8 Mo
Hannah Morris 14 - servant
Enock Stanway 35
Nathan Kelser 20

Listed as a lodger, but at a different address from all the other people Ancestry's transcription lumps him in with:

Reuben Murray
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Reuben Murray
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation to Head: Lodger
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Pendleton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 6 Hankinson Court
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Pendleton
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Neighbors:
Piece: 3713
Folio: 8
Page Number: 7
Household schedule number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Reuben Murray 54 - general labourer, married
Mary E Murray 28 - laundress, married, Manchester

Same address as given in daughter May's baptism, posted by Maddie on page 1.


The marriage was in Salford, so ??
Births Jun 1873 (>99%)
Gavin Mary Ellen Salford 8d 67

Re 1861 census above:

Marriages Jun 1857 (>99%)
Beech Jane Nantwich 8A 389
Morey Henry Nantwich 8a 389
Murray Henry Nantwich 8a 389


MORRIS, MARY mms BEECH
GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in NANTWICH Volume 08A Page 313



It's maybe possible that Henry Morey/Murray/MorreyMorris is a brother of Reuben's mother Hannah.

?? Servant in the Broster household:

Reuben Morris
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Reuben Morris
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: 1850
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Sandbach Cheshire England
Civil Parish: Kinderton with Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: Middlewich
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Northwich
Sub-registration district: Middlewich
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 7
Piece: 3700
Folio: 102
Page Number: 3

Ruben Morrie
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Ruben Morrie
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: 1849
Relation: Son [Nurse son on image ]
Father's name: Henry Morrey
Mother's name: Jane Morrie
Gender: Male
Where born: Hassel, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Haslington
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Nantwich
Sub-registration district: Wybunbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 89
Piece: 2617
Folio: 39
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Morrey 24
Jane Morrie 25
Mary Morrie 1
Ruben Morrie 12 - Nurse son

Possible death for Mary (Brough/Lawton) - aged 34 in 1881

Deaths Jun 1890 (>99%)
Morris Mary 42 Salford 8d 17

quick turn around if he married Harriett in Q4

Hope I can explain this - Is it just coincidence or -

I think 1851, 1881 and 1891 census are the same Reuben - born Hassall 1851, Day Green 1881 - both are just outside of Sandbach which is 1891 - place of birth

The daughter Mary L 1881 and Mary E - born Kent/Kenton Green (?Kent Green **actually) and could daughter Hannah / Ann L have been caught for given place of birth between Kent Green and Manchester in memories / family moves.

If so the Reuben is with a Mary in 1881 and a Harriet in 1891 and Mary is the name on the baptisms -------

Where is he and with whom in 1901 (and 1861/1871 - is he going by another surname if his ? unmarried Mother married soon after 1851 census perhaps

**Kent Green near Astbury (google) which is just outside of Congleton

Was there a 3rd marriage?

EDIT - looks like -

Mary Brough (Lawton) 1879
then Harriet Godbert 1890
and Mary Ellen Gavin 1905

Name: Mary Brough
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: 1847
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Soloman Brough
Mother's name: Ann Brough
Gender: Female
Where born: Market Drayton, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Shelton
Ecclesiastical parish: Etruria
Town: Hanley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Stoke Upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Shelton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 163
Piece: 1935
Folio: 45
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
Soloman Brough 46
Ann Brough 26
Mary Brough 14
John Brough 12
Thomas Brough 10

Name: Mary Lawton
[Mary Brough]
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 1879
Marriage Place: St. Thomas', Odd Rode, Cheshire, England
Father: Solomon Brough
Spouse: Reuben Morris
FHL Film Number: 1656490
Reference ID: 2:3FWPSGP

MARY
Last name BROUGH
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1872
Registration month -


MARY BROUGH married one of these people

Thomas Lawton, Thomas Cope
District Congleton

??????
REUBEN
Last name MORRIS
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1890
Registration month -

REUBEN MORRIS married one of these people

Harriet Godbert, Elizabeth Astley
District Salford

Harret Walker
Last name Godbert
Gender Female
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1853
Baptism date 27 Mar 1853
Residence Eccles, Lancashire, England
Place Pendleton
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Robert
Father's last name Godbert
Mother's first name(s) Sarah Ann
Mother's last name Godbert

Looks like they couldn’t marry till after the first wife died

Deaths Mar 1900 (>99%)
Morris Harriett 47 Salford 8d 64

So as previously posted


Marriages Jun 1905
GAVIN Mary Ellen Salford 8d 223
Morris Reuben Salford 8d 223

can anyone find any marriages ?