Genealogy Chat

I know the year differs from the 1939 census by one ( I think it is 1909) but what are the odds of both of them coming up with 6th February. I like the idea that Grace may have been registered at both addresses as she still appears at her old address and with her previous married name. Why else would she be not allowed to vote in Woolwich as she would have been well over the voting age in the 1950's.

The Grace in the 1939 register posted above must be the right one, as she's at the address Leslie was at in 1945.


And it seems a big coincidence if the one at 44 Plumstead High Street on the ERs isn't the right one, when Ellen Jane was living in Plumstead High Street in 1936-39.



EDIT: But it looks like you're right;

Grace Crundwell
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Grace Crundwell
Death Age: 87
Birth Date: 6 Feb 1910 - one year different from 1939 data
Registration Date: Sep 1997
Registration district: Hastings and Rother
Inferred County: East Sussex
Register Number: C62A
District and Subdistrict: 4561C
Entry Number: 108


Marriages Mar 1950 (>99%)
Burnside Grace Crundwell Dartford 5b 904
Crundwell Charles Burnside Dartford 5b 904
Crundwell Charles Forrest Dartford 5b 904
Forrest Grace Grundwell Dartford 5b 904


With Charles:

Grace Crundwell
in the Bexley, Kent, England, Electoral Registers, 1734-1965
Name: Grace Crundwell
Residence Year: 1952
Street address: 52 Ashbourne Avenue
Residence Place: Bexley, Kent, England
Parliamentary Division: Erith


Is it possible the Woolwich ER just wasn't updated?

Or, in view of the L notation, perhaps she kept her Woolwich flat for a few years after her marriage - perhaps in case things didn't work out for a second time ??
But was therefore only entitled to vote at her marital address?

Not online, for such a relatively recent divorce - at least not in England or Wales.
.

In any case, less than 0.02% of divorce case files after 1937 survive.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/divorce/

Many thanks to everyone for their efforts. I suspect the Grace Burnside mentioned is a different one,however, because I think Leslie's wife had married a Charles Crundwell by 1954. We obviously have BMD records but are divorces recorded anywhere that we can access.

Grace F??
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Grace F??
[Grace Forrest]
[Grace Burnside]
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 6 Feb 1909
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 61 Ceres Rd
Residence Place: Woolwich, London, England
Occupation: Hairdresser
Schedule Number: 82
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: AZJW
Registration district: 29/2
Household Members:
Name
Grace F?? [ Forrest, later Burnside ]
Rebecca M F?? - widowed [ Forrest, later Sturgess ] 17 April 1863



Rebecca H A Sturgess
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Rebecca H A Sturgess
Death Age: 104
Birth Date: abt 1863
Registration Date: Oct 1967
[Nov 1967]
[Dec 1967]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Battle
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 38

Grace L-Burnside
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Grace L-Burnside
Electoral Date: 1953
Street address: 44 Reidhaven Road [ 44 Plumstead High Street on image ]
Ward or Division/Constituency: Woolwich
County or Borough: Newham, England

The L is not part of her name - it's a notation:
On the image it says:

L - Burnside, Grace

"L indicates that the elector is not entitled to vote in respect of that entry in Parliamentary Elections."


Other names at that address:

Richard J and Joyce L S Welton; Jean M Barynski


EDIT: She's also at that address in 1949, 1950 and 1954.
The Weltons and Jean Barynski are also there in 1954.
In 1949 & 1950 there's only Jean Barynski and Laura M Welton. (And Grace, of course)

In 1945 he's at 61 Ceres Road , Woolwich - alone.

Leslie R G Burnside
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Leslie R G Burnside
Electoral Date: 1951
Street address: 1182 (Anew [mistranscribed . 61 Ceres Road]
Ward or Division/Constituency: Lambeth
County or Borough: Lambeth, England

Many thanks. Leslie Richard was Ellen's youngest child. Interesting to discover that she was at 40 Ceres Road between 1946 and 1956. I wonder when she left , because her death certificate in 1959 reveals her home as 198 Bexley Road,Erith.
Leslie Richard George Burnside was married in 1939 but I suspect his marriage didn't survive the War. Is there any mention of a Grace Burnside (maiden name Forrest) in the electoral rolls from 1946 to 1956? Leslie was killed in an accident in 1955 when a vehicle collided with his bike.

Maddie has answered this question on your other thread:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1380622

Expanding a bit -

In 1938 & 1939, she's at 386 Plumstead High Street, There's also an Alfred & Henrietta Day at that address - but probably in a different flat/ household.

1936, she's at 273 Plumstead High Street, with Leslie Richard George Burnside.
Also at that address is Harry Arthur French - but again, probably a different household.

1930 & 1932, at 3 Victoria Cottages. also Alfred Henry Cookney and Margaret Alice Cookney, but probably different household.
1930 already posted above.

1946, and still in 1951 - there's an Ellen J Burnside at 40 Ceres Road, Newham, Woolwich. Another household there is Charles H and Jean O Bingham.
(Charles isn't there in 1946 - perhaps not yet demobbed.)

1956, Ellen's still at that address.
However, the Binghams have gone, and are replaced by George J and Peggy D Bray.


So yes, as Maddie has said, Ellen was living alone.

In one of my previous posts some kind contributors highlighted the fact that Ellen may have been separated from her husband John Angus Burnside citing London Electoral records. Could anyone who has access to such records please tell me who else is listed with her at any addresses they are able to find. Many thanks.

The registrar( Mr J J Belamy) signed it himself after receiving the coroner's for SE London' report of the inquest.

You wrote

As it was 1939 no informant is given nor name of parent.

Death certs have always included the name etc of the person registering the death

From the GRO site

Signature, description and
residence of informant
Often a spouse or other close
relative. If the address is the
same as the place of death,
then it’s likely the deceased
died at home. After 1875, the
relationship to the deceased
was recorded.

So looks like Ellen moved away

The National Archives logo
Ellen J Burnside's life in 1939
Newlands Cottages, Upton-On-Severn R.D., Worcestershire, England

Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Violet N Baldwin 11 Nov 1909 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 27 1
Ernest M Baldwin 26 Jan 1906 Male Steam Lorry Driver Married 27 2
Gwendoline C Clarke (Baldwin) 15 Jul 1928 Female At School Single 27 3

The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

Michael J Baldwin 09 Jan 1935 Male At School Single 27 5
Ellen J Burnside 19 Sep 1871 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 27 6
Cecelia V Vaughan 13 Nov 1900 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 27 7
View first 5 occupants
Ref: RG101/5822I/004/18 Letter Code: QKQJ
© Findmypast Ltd

She gives her status as widow

Unfortunately none of this proves that John and John Angus were the same person.

I'm quite sure they were, given the dates, locations, and occupations, but there's no actual proof, so far.

John
Last name Burnside
Service number 1803
Rank Gunner
Unit or Regiment 21st Brigade., Royal Artillery
HQ location Woolwich
Year 1871
Country Great Britain
National Archives reference WO 10/2729
Period 01/04/1871-30/06/1871

JOHN
Last name BURNSIDE
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1838
Age 40
Death quarter 2
Death year 1878
District Woolwich
County London

JOHN
Last name BURNSIDE
Birth year 1870
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Ryan
District Woolwich
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 859

Name: Gunner John Burnside
Event: Marriage
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 14 Apr 1866
Marriage Place: Jersey
Spouse: Margaret Ryan

Burnside
John
1870
—
1870
British Armed Forces And Overseas Births And Baptisms
Woolwich, England

View transcript.

View image.
Burnside
John
1870
—
1870
British Armed Forces And Overseas Births And Baptisms
Woolwich, England

This is on FMP.credis to view,

If that means he was buried in Greenwich Cemetery, contact details are here - maybe worth asking about him;

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/directory_record/2677/greenwich_cemetery

From below (credits needed to view image)

Chris :)

Burnside John Angus
Location Greenwich

https://www.deceasedonline.com/

In 1930 Ellen Jane is at 3 Victoria cottages, Bloomfield Road - no other Burnsides with her.
Had they separated? (She's also there in 1932.)

Ellen Jane Burnside
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Ellen Jane Burnside
Electoral Date: 1930
Ward or Division/Constituency: Woolwich
County or Borough: Newham, England

John is at 58 Llanover Road:

John Burnside
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: John Burnside
Electoral Date: 1930
Street address: 58 Tgerton [ Llanover Road on image ]
Ward or Division/Constituency: Woolwich
County or Borough: Newham, England

So either they had separated, or John is the son.