Genealogy Chat

Hello, I'm looking for thoughts on a scenario concerning William Perkins. He was baptised at Heydour (sometimes appears as Haydor or Haydour) in Lincolnshire 2 Aug 1798. I have 2 marriages for William at Heydour, in 1825 to Mary Grice and 1845 to Ann Weatly. Heydour has hamlets Oasby (Ozeby), Aisby (Azeby) and Kelby around it. A branch of the Perkins family moved there and is found in all of the hamlets at various times. I have only the one William in these locations, at the moment. I have a William Perkins on the 1841 census Oasby aged 40 in the same household is Mary aged 60 (adult ages have been rounded). Come the 1851 census William is listed with Ann and 3 children. I have traced a death for an Ann Perkins aged 64, burial at Heydour Arpil 1845 aged 64, the only Ann Perkins burial there between 1825 and 1845. There is also a baptism of a Mary Grice in late1780 at nearby Aunsby. The marriage to Ann Weatly is in June 1845. There are no baptisms for any children of William and Mary at Heydour. All of the above seem to point to William first marrying a lady somewhat older than he who would have been 45 when they married, and thus perhaps already past childbearing. However, the spanner in the works is that the marriage register for the first marriage includes reference to parental consent, thus implying that the bride was under 21. A further twist is that the oldest child of William and Ann (Elizabeth) was baptised in Heydour in early December 1845, the birth being registered in Q4 1845. I am well aware that the details in marriage registers often contain errors, so maybe that's the problem here. Would appreciate the thoughts of others on this one, before I go down the route of ordering a copy of the death cert for the Mary Perkins in 1845.

Is this connected to your other Perkins threads?

Only in so far as William is a member of the same Perkins branch that migrated to the Heydour area in the 18th century.

To expand on the connection to my other recent Perkins threads. William was the brother of Richard who was father of George and Ann, they are the subject of the other threads.

for info
1851

Hamlet of Ozeby, Haydor with Oasby & Ayeby, Grantham, Lincolnshire, England
William Perkins Head Of Family Married Male 54 1797 Agricultural Labourer Kelby, Lincolnshire, England
Ann Perkins Wife Married Female 38 1813 Labourer's Wife Normanton, Lincolnshire, England
Elizabeth Perkins Daughter Unmarried Female 5 1846 - Lincolnshire, England
James Perkins Son - Male 3 1848 - Lincolnshire, England
John Perkins Son - Male 0 1851 - Lincolnshire, England

1841
Ousby, Haydor, Grantham, Lincolnshire, England
William Perkins Male 40 1801 Lincolnshire, England
Mary Perkins Female 60 1781 Lincolnshire, England

William
Sex Male
Last name Perkins
Burial year 1854
Birth year 1795
County Lincolnshire
Country England
Burial place Heydour
Page 43
Age 59
Burial date 16 Sep 1854

Mary
Sex Female
Last name Perkins
Burial year 1845
Birth year 1781
County Lincolnshire
Country England
Burial place Heydour
Page 30
Age 64
Burial date 23 Apr 1845
Archive
Lincolnshire Archives
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

William
Last name Perkins
Sex Male
Birth year -
Residence Heydour Cum Kelby
Marriage year 1825
Marriage date 18 Jul 1825
Marriage place Heydour
Spouse's first name(s) Mary
Spouse's last name Grice
Spouse's residence Heydour Cum Kelby
County Lincolnshire
Country England
Page 16

?????
Mary
Sex Female
Last name Grice
Baptism year 1780
Birth year -
County Lincolnshire
Country England
Place Aunsby
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Father's first name(s) George
Page 14
Baptism date 15 Oct 1780

MARY
Last name GRICE
Marriage year 1825
Marriage day 18
Marriage month Jul
Parish Heydour
Spouse's first name(s) William
Spouse's last name Perkins
Deanery Loveden
County Lincolnshire
Country England
Notes
With consent of parents
Record set Lincolnshire Marriage Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

william would also be over 21 at time of marriage, maybe they asked consent because of the age gap

sister
Frances Grice
Gender Female
Christening Date 20 Jun 1773
Christening Date (Original) 20 JUN 1773
Christening Place AUNSBY,LINCOLN,ENGLAND
Father's Name George Grice
Mother's Name Ann
Citing this Record

"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch

Catharine Grice
Gender Female
Christening Date 08 Oct 1778
Christening Date (Original) 08 OCT 1778
Christening Place AUNSBY,LINCOLN,ENGLAND
Father's Name George Grice
Mother's Name Ann
Citing this Record

"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch

Mary Grice
Gender Female
Christening Date 15 Oct 1780
Christening Date (Original) 15 OCT 1780
Christening Place AUNSBY,LINCOLN,ENGLAND
Father's Name George Grice
Mother's Name Ann
Citing this Record

"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch

Richard Grice
Gender Male
Christening Date 14 Apr 1775
Christening Date (Original) 14 APR 1775
Christening Place AUNSBY,LINCOLN,ENGLAND
Father's Name George Grice
Mother's Name Ann
Citing this Record

"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch

PERKINS, JOHN WHEATLEY
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in GRANTHAM UNION Volume 14 Page 455

PERKINS, ELIZABETH WHEATLEY
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in GRANTHAM UNION Volume 14 Page 377

From a tree on Ancestry - MAY need verification

Birth
ABT Jul 1798 • Kelby, Lincolnshire, England
2 Sources
1798

(AGE)

Baptism
02 Aug 1798 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
Source FreeREG

1798

Marriage
18 Jul 1825 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
LIncs Marriages

Mary Grice
1825

27

Death of Father James Perkins(1755–1833)
1833
1833

35

Death of Mother Elizabeth Patinson(1759–1839)
May 1839 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
1839

40

Residence
1841 • Haydor, Lincolnshire, England
1 Source
1841

43

Marriage
15 Jun 1845 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
Lincs Marriages Index

Ann Weatley
(1813–)

1845

46

Birth of Daughter Elizabeth Perkins(1845–1926)
October 1845 • Oasby, Lincolnshire, England
1845

47

Birth of Son James Perkins(1848–1920)
January 1848 • Oasby, Lincolnshire, England
1848

49

Birth of Son John Perkins(1850–)
April 1850 • Oasby, Lincolnshire, England
1850

51

Death of Brother Richard Perkins(1790–1850)
Oct 1850 • Rauceby, Lincolnshire, England
1850

52

Residence
1851 • Haydor, Oasby, and Azeby, Lincolnshire, England
Relationship: Head

1 Source
1851

53

View
Death
Sep 1854 • Oasby, Lincolnshire, England
1854

56

Burial
16 Sep 1854 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
freeReg

1854

56

Skip to Family
Sources
Ancestry Sources
View Source
1841 England Census
View Source
1851 England Census
Search on Ancestry
Skip to Facts
Family
Parents
James Perkins
1755–1833

Elizabeth Patinson
1759–1839

Siblings
Spouse
Mary Grice
Spouse & Children
Ann Weatley
1813–

Elizabeth Perkins
1845–1926

James Perkins
1848–1920

John Perkins
1850–

Erika, It's probably my tree on ancestry you are "quoting" from i.e Perkins Family.

I see now that it is - so I've wasted my time with that

Unsure of what exactly you're looking for.........................you refer to Ann when I think you mean Mary

I have traced a death for an Ann Perkins aged 64, burial at Heydour Arpil 1845 aged 64, the only Ann Perkins burial there between 1825 and 1845.

What is your actual query, please?

Sorry, yes I have mixed up Mary and Ann. To clarify, my problem is that the marriage register entry suggests William's first wife Mary Grice was under 21 when they married, but the baptism, census data and burial details suggest Mary was some 17 years his senior. It would also appear that Ann Weatly /Perkins was already pregnant with oldest child Elizabeth before Mary Grice/Perkins died, or was very shortly afterwards if the child happened to be a little premature. For my theory to hang together, the marriage register has to be wrong. I'm not sure how likely it is that a bride would be suggested as being under 21 and needing consent, when this was anything but the case.

mary was buried 2 months before the 2nd marriage


william would also be over 21 at time of marriage, maybe they asked consent because of the age gap

consent of parents wouldn't have been needed, and although I've just had a search and it looks like Mary's family moved from Aunsby to Oasby, there are burials for George and Ann Grice at Heydour, abode Oasby, both of them before the marriage.

The gap between the burial of Mary and marriage to Ann is a little under 2 mths, 23rd Apr to 15th Jun. The bapt of Elizabeth was 7th Dec.

Looking to see where Ann Wheatley was in 1841 - this would appear to be her.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Normanton, Grantham, Lincolnshire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Benjnan Wheatley Male 50 1791 Lincolnshire, England Ag. Lab
Mary Wheatley Female 40 1801 Lincolnshire, England
Ann Wheatley Female 26 1815 Lincolnshire, England
John Wheatley Male 12 1829 Lincolnshire, England
Frances Wheatley Female 0 1841 Lincolnshire, England

Oasby/Normanton about 6/7 miles apart. No saying where she was between 1841 and 1845, but obviously met up with William at some point prior to their marriage !

William wouldn't be the first or last person to have a relationship whilst their spouse was alive. May well be that William and Ann did liaise before Mary died!

Yes, I appreciate that William might well have been in a relationship with Ann before Mary died, so that of itself doesn't disprove that the Mary buried in 1845 was William's first wife.

Yes, you have Ann found in 1841, I think the baby Frances is actually her illegitimate child. I've found a baptism @ Wellingore for such a "bastard" child as the parish register calls her. Whilst she "married in" to the Perkins family, things like that always pique my interest.

Not relevant to your query, but just because I came across it -

Anne married again:

Anne Perkins
England, Lincolnshire, Parish Registers, 1538-1990
Name: Thomas Roberts
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 14 Feb 1857
Event Place: Ropsley, Lincolnshire, England, United Kingdom
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: William Coil
Spouse's Name: Anne Perkins
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Father's Name: Benjamin Wheatley

I assume that William is described as a Widower on the 1845 marriage cert?

I've only seen a transcript of the 1845 marriage which doesn't indicate he that he was a widower, that said, I've learned from past experience that this is not conclusive. One of William's own brother's is shown as a bachelor when he was a widower.

For our reference - the christening you mention:


Frances Wheatly
England, Lincolnshire, Parish Registers
Name Frances Wheatly
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 07 Oct 1840
Event Place Wellingore, Lincolnshire, England, United Kingdom
Gender Female
Mother's Name Ann Wheatly


Her death ???

WHEATLEY, FANNY 1
GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in GRANTHAM UNION Volume 14 Page 250



Ancestry suggests this is her birth:

Female Wheatley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Female Wheatley
Registration Year: 1840
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Lincoln
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 14
Page: 425

However, that child wasn't illegitimate:

WHEATLEY, - mms BILTON
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in LINCOLN UNION Volume 14 Page 425

Lincoln is the wrong registration district