Genealogy Chat

It looks as though Beatrice was living with Reuben in 1939, and using his surname, even though they did not marry until 1942.

1939 Register from FMP ..........

Walters Household (2 People) 121 Heath Park Avenue , Cardiff C.B., Glamorganshire, Wales

Reuben G Walters 04 Sep 1884 Estate Agent
Beatrice Walters 04 Jan 1888 Unpaid Domestic Duties


no other information on the image.

STEPHENS, FREDERICK ARCHIE mms PHIPPS
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 390

??
Frederick Archie Stephens
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Frederick Archie Stephens
Death Age: 74
Birth Date: 4 Jan 1909
Registration Date: Dec 1983
Registration district: South Glamorgan
Inferred County: South Glamorgan
Volume: 28
Page: 1738

Wow you lot are so quick at this. Thanks.
Ive done alot of research on my family tree but this was a bit of the jig saw I didnt pursue well enough. Heres the story around Reuben g walters.
He married his first wife Alice and they had one child my grandma sylvia. After ww1 Reuben who was in a naval role came back after the war and left his wife forever She later remarried. He did keep in touch with my grandma over the years. I saw Reuben only once when I was about nine. He visited grandma with his " house keeper" and her son who was about my age. Reuben was labeled a womaniser by my dad which was abit rich given my dad has married 3 times himself. In recent years I researched Reuben. Found his death recorded in Milford Haven and remembering grandma visiting him there and sending post cards. Obtaining his Will confirmed it was gt grandad.
Further work on genes suggested he had married a Beatrice in Cardiff but I was unsure if it was the same Reuben. I couldnt find details about her. I did locate them together in Cardiff on the 1939 register which was free for a few weeks. Presumably a re look at that should confirm her age if any of you have access please. I had wondered if his housekeeper had been Beatrice but her death as you have found out was 1953 so several years before gt grandad reuben was introduced to me. He had a very large house in monmouth shire mentioned in his will but died in a large house at Milford Haven. He had a house keeper then . I havent found out yet if he had purchased the place at Milford or if it had been a holiday destination or even a rest home. I keep a boat at Milford myself so often walk past the property and will pluck up courage one day to knock on the door and speak to current owners. Thanks for your help on this. Will carry on later about the other Hill marriage records mentioned above

Peter ...

I posted the 1939 Register at 19:54 pm, showing Beatrice's date of birth.

Going back to David and Margaret.
If you search for the marriage of Margaret L Hill you l will you see two entry lines both ref 0396 at same register office.
Similarly if you search for David A Hill or David AP Hill you see two also. With the same 0396ref . Now look at the transcripts for each of the names. I would have expected to see one for Margaret Hill her deed poll name and one for her original surname maiden or prev marriage.
Cant remember which one it is but the transcript shows a David A Hill marrying David A P Hill ? Clearly a mistake.

Just rechecked two entry lines for margaret l hill. If you look at the transcript both are the same married to david a hill.This is what I meant about two the same. If you do the same thing by searching david a Hill when you look at the transcript it shows david marrying david.

Peter ............

Re the Hills ...............

Margaret changed her name by deed poll, and presumably was not asked what her name had been before that, therefore she did not volunterr the information.

The two entries are because it was DAVID who must have asked for a corrrection because of the A vs A P.

Yes, one of the transcripts on FMP does show David marrying David, but that Marriage Finder is wrong!! However it is determined, the information on there was not derived by actually noting that there was another Hill, ie Margaret, marrying on that date!

So a register office will not ask the persons birth surname or previous married name?
In the previous hill marriage discussion Beatrice had entries under both Phipps and Stephens. Is it a persons personal choice what to offer?

Peter ...............

it really depends on what question is asked!

I do not know whether changing your name legally by deed poll is the same as changing your name legally by marrying ............ in other words, whether you are supposed to tell the Registrar or Vicar that you had a previous anme.

Again, it might depend on the question asked.

On the same family margaret's daughter who was adopted by david may have married. If you look at sarah j hill marriage year 2000 in surrey there are two entries with identical data. Husband was Earl D Fielder. I had assumed this was something to do with sarahs name change due to adoption. What other reason might this happen.

Which website are you seeing this on, Peter?

Looking at the marriage on Ancestry, there are two entries with identical names - Sarah Hill (no middle initial) and Earl D Fielder, but different page numbers.

One is presumably because of some alteration to the details on the cert - could have been anything.
I don't know if FMP allows you to view the Index - Ancestry doesn't, for such a recent marriage.

You might have to buy both (or at least the one with the later page number) to see what change had been made.

I can't see the image on FMP, but these are the transcripts on there ........


First name(s) EARL D
Last name FIELDER
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 2000
Registration month 6

MarriageFinder ™

EARL D FIELDER married one of these people

Sarah Hill
Spouse's last name Hill
District East Surrey
District number 755
County Surrey
Country England
Volume -
Page number 0182
Entry number 013
Source code R1A <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005



First name(s) EARL D
Last name FIELDER
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 2000
Registration month 6

MarriageFinder ™

EARL D FIELDER married one of these people

Sarah Hill
Spouse's last name Hill
District East Surrey
District number 755
County Surrey
Country England
Volume -
Page number 1270
Entry number 013
Source code RP3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Presumably the different Source Codes mean something???????

Ancestry doesn't show source codes - just the volume and page numbers.
Googling doesn't bring up any explanation of source codes on FMP.

Hi back on. I was using genes reunited.Although I entered sarah j hill it listed 2 sarah hills and two sarah j hills.
I was attracted to the two sarah hills. I thought they were identical and might signify two surnames. Just a hunch which you have now discounted. I have relooked and they are not identical. One shows page 1270 entry no 013 and the other page 0182 entry number 023. There were several sarah hill marriages but thought this one significant.
Strange the page numbers are different but entry number the same? Must be dome technical reason but no hrlp to this quest.
Unlike my last challenge with Beatrice and Reuben these Hills arent direct family.
I was approached to see if I was related and decided to help where possible.
David Hills sister hasnt seen him since that wedding back in 2000. David ,Margaret and Sarah aged about 10 emigrated to spain not sure where. He said he would write to his sister when they found a place to live. His sister never heard from him.
To be fair his sister moved house 3 times since then. I found daves first birth snd marriage. His second marriage to margaret. I looked at white pages for all of spain on all three names and drew a blanc. Thought about looking for Sarah Hill names married in spain but cant do that in genes. Assumed they may have returned back to the uk and sarah probably married. Assumed back in surrey district. Also did electoral register searches for david and maragaret which provided a dozen addresses. His sister is writing to them. His sister says he hasnt claimed his raf or state pension. David will be late seventies early eighties now. Davids mother has died meanwhile .
Will try all the sarah hill marriages in conjunction with electoral addresses. David also had three children from his first marriage so may go back and try there. Any ideas please?

Hi back on. I was using genes reunited.Although I entered sarah j hill it listed 2 sarah hills and two sarah j hills.
I was attracted to the two sarah hills. I thought they were identical and might signify two surnames. Just a hunch which you have now discounted. I have relooked and they are not identical. One shows page 1270 entry no 013 and the other page 0182 entry number 023. There were several sarah hill marriages but thought this one significant.
Strange the page numbers are different but entry number the same? Must be dome technical reason but no hrlp to this quest.
Unlike my last challenge with Beatrice and Reuben these Hills arent direct family.
I was approached to see if I was related and decided to help where possible.
David Hills sister hasnt seen him since that wedding back in 2000. David ,Margaret and Sarah aged about 10 emigrated to spain not sure where. He said he would write to his sister when they found a place to live. His sister never heard from him.
To be fair his sister moved house 3 times since then. I found daves first birth snd marriage. His second marriage to margaret. I looked at white pages for all of spain on all three names and drew a blanc. Thought about looking for Sarah Hill names married in spain but cant do that in genes. Assumed they may have returned back to the uk and sarah probably married. Assumed back in surrey district. Also did electoral register searches for david and maragaret which provided a dozen addresses. His sister is writing to them. His sister says he hasnt claimed his raf or state pension. David will be late seventies early eighties now. Davids mother has died meanwhile .
Will try all the sarah hill marriages in conjunction with electoral addresses. David also had three children from his first marriage so may go back and try there. Any ideas please?

First thing to say is that virtually none of the helpers on here use GR for research. We use FMP or Ancestry mainly, plus other sites.

If David and/or Margaret died in Spain, we won't be able to find that out online.
If he hasn't claimed his pensions, it does sound as if he may have died.

If any of them returned to the UK, it'll be like looking for a needle in a haystack - such a common name - as you know!

Do you have exact dates of birth for any of them? Don't post them on here - but if you like to send me a PM I could have a look for possible deaths in the UK.

What are David's middle names?

Hi. Have tried all deaths and probate using his dob but cant find him
You may do better though. Will message you tonight. Did you say you cant view marriages in spain on ancestry ? The mormons in utah have massive system covering the whole world but not sure how to access that.? Thankyou for help once again.

familysearch is the Latter Day Saints website

Your understanding of the scope of their records may be flawed

FamilySearch is one of the "other sites" I mentioned, Peter.

I didn't mean their deaths (if in Spain) wouldn't be on Ancestry in particular - just that they would be too recent to appear online anywhere.

Certainly neither Ancestry ,FMP, nor FamilySearch has any Spanish deaths as recent as that.