Genealogy Chat

Can anyone tell me please, under what circumstances might someone be shown as a sojourner in a nearby place rather than a resident in a place of marriage?

If I can explain: one of my long term brick walls is my 3 x great grandfather, John Cole. He married Dinah Neate in Southbroom Devizes in 1815. I have a copy of the Parish Record entry and it shows him as a sojourner in Stert - a small village just outside Devizes. A CD of baptisms shows no Coles in Stert so I have always assumed that he was from somewhere else and was merely staying in Stert. There are several John Coles from other towns/villages in Wiltshire but I have nothing to be able to identify any of them as a possible. Some years ago GR members tried hard to help me with this.

Coming back to it now and looking with fresh eyes, I have found a John Coles (Cole and Coles have been used for the same family) born in Devizes in 1774. This is one I have not come across before, but if he was from Devizes to start with, why, if it was him, might he have been shown as staying in Stert? My John Cole had a business in Devizes so I can't think it would have been convenient to live in Stert.

Am I barking up yet another wrong tree?

A sojourner is a person who resides temporarily in a place.

for ref
John
Last name Cole
Birth year -
Occupation Sojourner
Residence Southbroom St James
Marriage year 1815
Marriage date 08 May 1815
Place Southbroom
County Wiltshire
Country England
By licence or by banns B
Spouse's first name(s) Dinah
Spouse's last name Neate
Spouse's residence Southbroom St James
Witness 1 Charles Neate
Witness 2 Jno Bishop
Record set Wiltshire Marriages Index 1538-1933


as dinah came from southbroom perhaps he resided in stert for the banns to be called
is this john

John
Last name Cole
Age 40
Birth year 1795
Death year 1835
Death date 03 Mar 1835
Burial year 1835
Burial date 09 Mar 1835
Place Devizes
Denomination Independent --------------
County Wiltshire
Country England
The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/2591

????

Record Transcription:
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Whiteparish, Alderbury, Wiltshire, England

Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
John Cole Male 50 1791 Wiltshire, England
Dinah Cole Female 40 1801 Wiltshire, England
Harriot Cole Female 15 1826 Wiltshire, England

IF he was buried asa non conformist maybe he was baptised as one

???????
John
Last name Cole
Birth year 1795
Birth date 06 Jun 1795
Birth place as transcibed Frenchay
Birth county as transcribed Gloucester
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Mother's first name(s) Martha
Meeting place Thornbury
Monthly meeting Frenchay
Quarterly meeting Gloucestershire, Wiltshire
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Archive reference RG6/58
Description GLOUCESTERSHIRE AND WILTSHIRE: Monthly Meeting of Frenchay: Thornbury: Births
Record set England & Wales, Society Of Friends (Quaker) Births 1578-1841
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

Thomas
Last name Cole
Marriage year 1790
Marriage date 22 Sep 1790
Marriage place as transcibed Thornbury
Marriage county as transcribed Glocestershire, Wiltshire
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Cole
Spouse's first name(s) Martha
Spouse's last name Young
Meeting place Gloucestershire, Wiltshire
Monthly meeting -
Quarterly meeting Gloucestershire, Wiltshire

Report a transcription error.
First name(s) Julia
Last name Cole
Birth year 1834
Birth date 25 Mar 1834
Baptism year 1834
Baptism date 31 Aug 1834
Place Devizes
Denomination Independent
Father's first name(s) Jno
Mother's first name(s) Dinah
County Wiltshire
Country England
The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/2591
Description WILTSHIRE: Devizes, St Mary's Chapel (Independent): Births & Baptisms ----------------------------------

Thank you for your kind replies - I appreciate your interest. John Cole did indeed die in 1835 - I have a copy of his will leaving the gun-making business to Dinah. They were married at St James Southbroom and some of their children were baptised there. Julia was the youngest daughter. By the 1841 census Dinah had remarried to another gunmaker, Thomas Ewell Lott (I am also descended from him because his daughter married Dinah's son George). Thomas Lott is the head of household in 1841 and they are at Northgate St. Devizes.

I would be grateful if someone could explain to me about the banns - why would he need to be resident in another place? I would have thought that a great many marriages would have been between couples from the same community so what was the disadvantage in saying so?

If he was non-conformist, perhaps he didn't want his family to know that he was marrying in a Church of England church, so stayed temporarily in another place so that the banns could be read without his family knowing. Just a thought really.

Dinah's second marriage was by licence rather than banns. This usually means they want to marry quickly without waiting for banns to be read.

Kath. x

Hello Kath. That is a thought - doesn't religion complicate things!

As far as Dinah's second marriage goes, I believe they were trying to keep the marriage secret. They were married in Beckington, Somerset, some distance away. John Cole's will left his property to two business men in Devizes with the proviso that Dinah, who inherited the business, should be able to live there and carry on the business from there "for as long as she shall remain as my widow". By marrying Thomas Lott she would forfeit this right. They must have been found out - Thomas Lott was declared bankrupt in 1840 and in 1841 - back in business - she was Dinah Lott.

Banns for a marriage, then as now, had to be read in ALL parishes where the bride and groom are resident ........... that means that if the groom lives in another parish, then the Banns have to be called in that Parish.

If the couple are marrying in a parish where both have only lived for a short period, then the Banns may have to be called in the other 2 parishes of residence.

The Banns had to be paid for ................ so you find that many people give the same address in the Parish Register, and on marriage certificates after July 1 1837. Before that, the Parish Register may simply say "of this parish" for both of them.

That way, they only paid for one set of Banns to be called.

So it is quite possible that he moved to live in the same parish as his future wife, for the required period of residence.

Note that many of them just took a suitcase to an address and left that there, making an occasional appearance .......... they didn't actually live at the address! ;-)

Thank you Sylvia. That does explain part of it, but in this case, the bride was not from Stert - she was from Devizes - so they would have paid for two sets of banns.

not that it helps much but dinah's residence was southbroom at the time

Dinah
Last name Neate
Birth year -
Residence St James, Southbroom ----------
Marriage year 1815
Marriage date 08 May 1815
Place Southbroom
County Wiltshire
Country England
By licence or by banns B
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Cole
Spouse's residence St James, Southbroom
Witness 1 Charles Neate
Witness 2 Jno Bishop
Record set Wiltshire Marriages Index 1538-1933
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

Stert w is only 2.3 miles from Southbrroom andabout 2 miles from Devizes

Thank you Maddie. Actually it does help, thank you, because I have been looking for my original sources of information and haven't been able to find them. I am coming back to this after several years and have moved house in the meantime (I now live only 9 miles from Devizes). I'm sure I've put all my paperwork in a safe place - if I could only find it!

I'm getting a better feeling about John Coles born 1774. He would have been 41 when they married but as he died in 1835 that would have made him 61 at the time (if only he'd lived another 2 years!). Also that John Coles had a brother, Daniel b. 1767. On the 1841 census, the next door premises to Dinah and Thomas Lott was a public house and the landlord was Daniel Cole.

????

DIED. On last, aged 46, Mr. John Cole, gunsmith of Devizes, leaving a wife ami a numerous family.

makes birth about

1789

Hello Safc. Where did you find that? My John Cole certainly was a gunsmith and he died in 1835, but we didn't know how old he was when he died. If 46 is correct, then the one I found born 1774 can't be the right one. This would narrow things down considerably.

hi
its on find my past

newspapers 1835 wiltshire

what i have posted is all it says

If 1789 ish is right, then he could be the one born in Kington-St-Michael - one I had considered before. Unless he came from outside Wiltshire (in which case I haven't a hope!) that looks to be the most likely one.

Christine ..........

when I said Banns might to be called in previous parishes if they had resided in the current one for only a short time ......... ie, the "suitcase" in the house had not been there for longer than 3 weeks!

It's possible or even more probable that that the bride was working in Southbroom, eg as a servant

It looks like that John Cole died in very early March .............

On Tuesday last, aged 46, Mr. John Cole, gunsmith of Devizes, leaving a wife ami a numerous family. Melksham, -
5 March 1835 - Devizes and Wiltshire Gazette - Devizes


But there is also this later notice, in a box with others providing important information. The image does say Dinah COLE ...............

WILTSHIRE notices,
DINAH COLE, Widow tuk late John Cole, GUNSMITH, BELL-HANGER, 6>c. DEVIZES, BEGS to inform the Friends of her late husband, that she intends, with proper Assistants
26 March 1835 - Devizes and Wiltshire Gazette - Devize


Transcribed by me (imagine it centred in the column) .......

Dinah Coxie
Widow of the late John Cole
Gunsmith, Bell-Hanger etc, Devizes
Begs to inform the Friends of her late Husband, that she
intends, with proper Assistants, to carry on the Business
in its several branches. She most respectfully solicits the
patronage and support of the Public, in behalf of herself, and
numerous Family, assuring them that it shall be her strenuous
endeavour, by the strictest attention, to merit the support of
those kind Friends who so liberally employed her late husband.

There is also a notice in the 26 March 1840 edition of the Devizes and Wiltshire Gazette that John Cole, son of the late John Cole, is taking over the business in Northgate Street, and thanks everyone for their support of his late father and of his mother who had run the business after his father's death.

If he was 46 when he died in 1835, then he would have been 26 when the married in 1815 ........ a much better age than 41.

41 might indicate that he had been married before, but I see no mention of him being a widower on any of the transcripts of the marriage.

1789 +/- 2 years sounds a better birth for him.

I wish they had published an obituary for him!!!


I think I read somewhere that gunsmiths often died young back then because they didn't take any precautions and could be exposed to some lethal conditions.

GR members never disappoint do they! You are all brilliant at this. I am so out of practice that I have been all at sea with the information. We knew a fair bit about the gunmaking side of things (quite coincidentally my brother was a black powder shooter - for the England team for a while - long before we knew about this connection), but had never heard anything about the bell hanging. We have a Cole of Devizes gun that dates from an earlier generation than this John Cole. There was another gunmaker in Devizes, from a different premises, Robert Cole, and the John Cole from Kington-St Michael had a brother Robert.

John Cole did die in March of that year and his will instructs that Dinah is to enlist the help of other gunmakers if she is unable to manage the business alone. This is obviously exactly what she did. John Cole Jnr was not part of the business by 1851 and I believe that he later worked in London as a gunsmith. There are connections with Stoke Newington. After Thomas Lott's death in 1862, the business was taken over by Dinah's son Frederick Cole and it remained in the family, I believe, until the 1960s. Gunmaking seems to be a trade that continues through families. We have evidence that Thomas Lott's ancestors were involved in the trade for several generations in Canterbury.

Thank you all for your kind help!