Genealogy Chat

A word of caution. The only things that is likely to be accurate on a DC are the date & place of death along with the informant name & residence. Everything else is to the best of the informants knowledge.

My maternal grandfather’s death was reg as Harry by my aunt. His birth was registered as Henry. She didn’t know that.
My paternal grandmothers dob as recorded on the DC is one year out!

Even the dob on the 1939 Register can be slightly or wildly out especially if there’s a large age gap between a married couple. Older people, or even the parents with a number of children, can forget the day of birth.

I have some more information regarding my post, though more confusion.

The 1939 record of John Morgan and wife Rosa 76 Osborne Rd Pontypool is correct, my friends elderly father in law is their grandson, he spent time with them as a child. The 1891, 1901 and 1911 census posted are correct,

1901 shows son Herbert John b 1899 he is father of her father in law. Daughter Ada Gertrude appears in 1911 census with an aunt Edith Laura Harris nee Beale, both Edith and Rosa Beale are in earlier census father Joseph Beale in Caeleon.

The marriage cert for the couple she has if its correct throws up problems. Listed as married in The Regsier Office, Register Dist of Cardiff in county of Cardiff and Glamorgan. 23rd June 1896.

John HENRY Morgan batchelor age 23 living at Frasers Yard Docks a Carter father Lewis a labourer.
Rosa Beale spinster age 21 same address no occupation father Joseph labourer

Cert. was signed by him as John HENRY the witness Annie Kean and Elizabeth May.

The problem we find is that when John* Morgan died in 1951 in Abergavenny Hospital death reg VOL 08C Page 57 JQ of 1950 he is now called Herbert John.

The death notice from Newspaper and death cert which has address and informant daughter named correct, both show his name as Herbert John Morgan age 78 Coal Merchant Haulier. The death notice says wife Mrs J Morgan which suggests he was known as John.

A posting showing family of Lewis Morgan and wife Catherine with 2 children, mm Price in 1881 no Herbert or John as someone says, although in 1881 there is a Herbert John Morgan shown aged 7 yrs born Llantillio Crosseny living as a nephew of John Morgan, in Skenfirth Monmouth, and family.

I have posted this as an update, she has searched for a number of years for his birth to progress with this side of the family, I will as suggested order the Male Cert for 1873. There is another Herbert Morgan 1873 birth the record she obtained was William Morgan and Ellen Whittingham parents reg Pontypool Garndiffath Trevihin so not the right one.

If any one can come up with any more suggestion, meanwhile I will order the cert.

Thank you for your help

For our reference:

Herbert John Morgan
in the 1881 Wales Census
Name: Herbert John Morgan
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Llantillo Crosseny, Monmouth, Wales
Civil Parish: Skenfrith
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Firs Farm
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Monmouth
Sub registration district: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 5226
Folio: 101
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
John Morgan 53 - born Llanwenith
Ann Morgan 50
Lewis Johnston Morgan 24 - son
Ada Morgan 14 - daughter
Eleanor Morgan 12 - daughter
Emily Matilda Morgan 10 - daughter
Herbert John Morgan 7
John Williams 17 - servant


Looks very possible, Maureen.
Lewis Morgan (Catherine's husband) was also born in Llanwenarth.

Perhaps John Henry didn't like the name Herbert.

But speculation's all very well.
It'll be interesting to know what the 1873 birth cert says - though it won't have any first names on it.

John (Herbert's uncle) in 1851, with brother Lewis.

Lewis's age matches 1881 census posted earlier:


John Morgan
in the 1851 Wales Census
Name: John Morgan
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Son
Father's name: Lewis Morgan
Mother's name: Mary Morgan
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Grosmont
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Hereford City
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Piece: 1978
Folio: 589
Page Number: 9
Household schedule number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Morgan 65
Mary Morgan 60
Henry Morgan 29
Ann Morgan 26
John Morgan 24
Mary Morgan 22
Michael Morgan 20
Lewis Morgan 17
Robert Ellis 18

UPDATE

My friend has received the Birth Cert for Male child born 1873, and it confirms his parents were Lewis Morgan farmer and Catherine Morgan formely Price.

The place of birth was LLantillo Crosseny and most important the Date of birth 23rd of April 1873 matches the same date on the 1939 register which showed him as John Morgan. Thank you for the suggestion of ordering this record as she had exhausted other options. The Birth was registered by mother the day after the birth, perhaps the baby was poorly and not expected to live so no name chosen at that time.

Argyll Gran posted 1871 Wales census showing Lewis and wife Catherine living with them Edwin a nephew.

*I would still if possible like help finding a marriage between Catherine Price and Lewis Morgan.

Some further information supplied, Lewis was married before to Sara Davies they had 2 daughters Matilda and Sarah Ann. On Dec 26 1870 Matilda died aged 15 followed on the 30th Dec by death of Sarah Ann aged 17.This was taken from a newspaper notice,and says daughters of Lewis Morgan at Upper Trewew Llantillio Crossney, No mention of a mother.

Newspaper Notice 14th May 1871 same address
Birth at Trerew Farm May 14th 1871 the wife of Mr Lewis Morgan a son. GRO shows a birth same dist of a Joshua Lewis Morgan mother Price, I think this may be the son living with John Davies wife Mary Davies Nee Morgan as posted by Argyll gran 1881 again name changed around.

1881 Lewis Morgan and Catherine have 2 more children William Henry age 5 and Elizabeth Ann 2.


Thank for help getting this far.

Catherine was Lewis's second wife.

In 1861 he's with wife Sarah:


Lewis Morgan
in the 1861 Wales Census
Name: Lewis Morgan
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Morgan
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llantillio Crossenny
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Monmouth
Sub-registration district: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 38
Neighbors:
Piece: 3986
Folio: 38
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Morgan 27
Sarah Morgan 30
Sarah A Morgan 7
Matilda Morgan 4
William M Philips 21 - servant
Ann Higgs 17 - servant


MORGAN, MATILDA mms DAVIS
GRO Reference: 1856 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 29

MORGAN, SARAH mms DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1853 S Quarter in NEWPORT Volume 11A Page 163


Marriages Jun 1853 (>99%)
Davies Sarah Monmouth 11a 59
Morgan Lewis Monmouth 11a 59

Possibly Sarah's death, which would mean Lewis married (or at least got together with) Catherine between 1868 - or 1861 at earliest - and 1871:

MORGAN, SARAH 36
GRO Reference: 1868 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 21

A maybe for a Gwatkin / Price marriage, to go with the Gwatkin / Morgan one in 1871 ??

Marriages Sep 1864 (>99%)
GWATKIN George Presteigne 11b 233
PRICE Catharine Presteigne 11B 233


??

Deaths Dec 1867 (>99%)
Gwatkin George 27 Hereford 6a 321

A son ??

GWATKIN, WILLIAM GEORGE mms PRICE
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in PRESTEIGN Volume 11B Page 153

I don't see him in 1871, but don't see his death, either.

Does look promising I will suggest she gets those certs,

Thank again Argyll Gran